Scot*land*sPeop*le.....

[Davie]

Greetin’s all,
Frae a rather wet Glasgow the day.
As a new member here I have enjoyed reading through the posts.
It is nice to so many helpful folk.
I am not posting here tae teach ma grannie tae suck eggs, as I am sure most of you know your way round Scotlandspeople.
However for some who don’t, here is ma tuppenies worth.
When in doubt use the wee asterisk *
My family name is McNaughtan, which has several variations.
So if you have a Mc or Mac in yer name this is the idea.
M*C*NAU*
That covers Mc, Mac and Mack plus all the other endings.
M*c*Farl*, M*C*Mil* etc.are the same.
A lot of the old spellings used Mack rather than, Mc or Mac.
As you all know mac means son of, while Nic means daughter of.
As for other tricky names like my Paterson.
It is Pa*ters*
That gets Paterson or Patterson, but not Pattison
Likewise, Mill*r, Miller Millar.
This goes for given names as well.
Is* covers Isabel Isa etc, but not Bella.
An* gives you Ann, Annette etc. but make sure it is a female you are searching for.
JAN* Jane Janet
Eli* Eliza Elizabeth, but not Beth or Betty
I have a few lassies in my line that have been christened Elizabeth but used Isabella.
Awrabest
Glesga Davie

[DavidWW]

Hi Glesga Davie

For some reason, and I haven't ever, yet, bottomed it out, the great majority of researchers don't use wildcards, * or % for any number of characters, including none; and ? or _ for a single character but not no character. Practice varies on different databases, so check!!

SP uses * % and ? ........ but the PRO (TNA) 1901 census database uses _ instead of ? ...

Part of the problem is the mistaken belief that "we have always spelt our surname that way" together with a lack of understanding that Ann on the birth register entry might later be known as Anne, Annie, Annette, Anita .... or Edith as Bunty !!

For the moment, please, let's get into variants for Jane or Elizabeth......... !! (Blows are known to have been exchanged as to what are "acceptable" variants !! <g>)

User statistics from ScotlandsPeople indicate that only an incredibly small number of searches on SP use either Soundex option or wildcards.

As Glesga Davie's post very neatly illustrates there are lots and lots of potential variants out there based not only on "natural" variants, i.e those which are generally accepted for both surnames and given names, but also the myriad of further variants which are based on the mis-hearing of the recorder, be that the registrar or the minister (marriage schedules for the purpose of statutory recording) or the census enumerator, for statutory records or censuses, or the misinterpretation of indexers at various stages, never mind earlier even "wilder" variants in the OPRs, sometimes depending on the degree of sobriety of the minister or the session clerk, or the fact that rough notes were sometime written up in the OPR many months later ........

"M*c" names are amongst the worst in terms of variants, and I can only encourage folk to read the introduction to Black's "The Surnames of Scotland" in order just to begin to understand the possible spelling variations for such surnames (and that's without even getting into the subject of aliases ....)

I've too often come across a most unusual variant, whatever the reason, that finally shows that there was a record, to put any faith in the Flying Saucer Theory !!

As a nice wee illustration of just what can happen, once upon a time there was a wee lasse who grew up into a bigger lassie who was known as "Essie", - so what do you think was the name on her birth register entry? (those of you who know the answer are disbarred from answering !!)

David

[Davie]

Here is an interesting wee site for yer perusal.
http://www.thinkbabynames.com/
As Dictionary Davie (until I find a better way of distinguishing ooresels) states.
“We have always spelt our surname that way"
Or as I have come across
“We have the Irish spelling”
Is a guid point and I have had a look at David's stuff, and he knows the score.
However, and that is better than but,
The amount of people who accept as “Gospel” when they see a death certificate of a death on “Scotlandspeople”
What you have to realise is, it is only the “informant “who is passing on the information.
Which is probably ok if it is a son or daughter, and even then I am never convinced, without confirmation.
As a wee test.
Ask any o’ yer ain weans, if they know ther Mither’s maiden name never mind ther’ Grannies.
Awrabest
Glesga Davie

[nelmit]

As a wee test.
Ask any o’ yer ain weans, if they know ther Mither’s maiden name never mind ther’ Grannies.
Awrabest
Glesga Davie

I did and they do. But in my case they could also probably tell you their g. gran's too .

Anyway 'listening' to you two having a wee friendly blether made me think that everyone (who perhaps don't quite understand our Scottish colloquialisms) would enjoy tuning in to the new BBC series on Scottish words.

www.bbc.co.uk/voices

Annette M

[Rosey]

Hi DavidWW

Could Essie be Esther?

Rosey

[DavidWW]

Hi DavidWW

Could Essie be Esther?

Rosey

Nope!, - nice try, but !!

David

[DavidWW]

....snipped..... As Dictionary Davie (until I find a better way of distinguishing ooresels)...snipped.......

I was only ever an accidental "Davie", - have a look at the standard QWERTY keyboard to understand the reason, but it stuck and I stuck with it.

As of now, however, I'm reverting to my name in every day life - "David" !!

David

If needed for telling apart, then "DavidWW"

[DavidWW]

Here is an interesting wee site for yer perusal.
http://www.thinkbabynames.com/
As Dictionary Davie (until I find a better way of distinguishing ooresels) states.
“We have always spelt our surname that way"
Or as I have come across
“We have the Irish spelling”
Is a guid point and I have had a look at David's stuff, and he knows the score.
However, and that is better than but,
The amount of people who accept as “Gospel” when they see a death certificate of a death on “Scotlandspeople”
What you have to realise is, it is only the “informant “who is passing on the information.
Which is probably ok if it is a son or daughter, and even then I am never convinced, without confirmation.
As a wee test.
Ask any o’ yer ain weans, if they know ther Mither’s maiden name never mind ther’ Grannies.
Awrabest
Glesga Davie

Here's a right one for you ............. 7 siblings born over ca. 12 years in the same parish; all registered by the mother (but she did sign with a cross); and all handled by the same registrar, whom you'd think, given the size of the small town involved, could have been expected to have some memory of the family... so why why was the one kid in the middle of the seven (the subject of the search, of course!) registered as MICKLEVENNA when all the others were shown with the exact same "correct" spelling of McILVENNY, - I can easily explain it in terms of an Ulster accent (both parents born there) and the resultant pronunciation of McILVENNY, but not the scenario described, unless, ... unless, ...... and this has just struck me, was hubby also along for this one registration?, but let his wife sign the entry, and it was his accent that confused the registrar.

Other possible explanations gratefully received!

David

[sheilajim]

Could Essie be Elizabeth?

Sheila

[DavidWW]

Could Essie be Elizabeth?

Sheila

Sheila

Getting closer, but not yet there !!

David