Being of a polite dispostion i have always obeyed my Scottish parent instuction not to refer to Scots as Scotch on the grounds that to do so is rude.
Since becoming the unoficial, unanounced and unelected family archivist I have come accross numerous examples where "Scotch" is used to describe Scottish people. Even the great Sir Walter Scott used used this word freely and he wasn't writing about the falling down water.
The latest material i came accross is an account of the first ever international Rugby match. The teams were Scotland and England and the venue was a Cricket ground in Raeburn place, Edinburgh!! When i read that i didn't know whether to laugh or cry. Anyway,The sports writer, a Scot, wrote "but it aroused in the breasts of the Scotch players" and "the Scotchmen invariably carrying the mauls". There are many more examples.
Have i been misled all these years? Is it rude or is it not? Is there a definitive word on this subject and do you care?
MM
PS I should add that the game was won by Scotland
Scotch Twist .....
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Malcolm
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Scotch Twist .....
Morris (formerly Morrice) of Fife and Geekie of Scone
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CatrionaL
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Malcolm,
Your post reminded me of a recent incident
I was putting the finishing touches to Sunday lunch when one of my grandchildren appeared: "Dad's wondering if you have any scotch."
"What on earth does he want scotch for?" "Don't know" "Alright you'll find it in the top drawer of the desk" His face must have been a picture when she presented him with a roll of sellotape instead of the golden liquid he had asked for.
For the French there is " du scotch" and "du Scotch". They call the people "les Ecossais.
To answer your question. I would say the Scots for the people, but would easily use Scotch as an adjective: Scotch pies, Scotch whisky. Wouldn't be able to tell you though whether that's correct or not.
All the best
Catriona
Your post reminded me of a recent incident
I was putting the finishing touches to Sunday lunch when one of my grandchildren appeared: "Dad's wondering if you have any scotch."
"What on earth does he want scotch for?" "Don't know" "Alright you'll find it in the top drawer of the desk" His face must have been a picture when she presented him with a roll of sellotape instead of the golden liquid he had asked for.
For the French there is " du scotch" and "du Scotch". They call the people "les Ecossais.
To answer your question. I would say the Scots for the people, but would easily use Scotch as an adjective: Scotch pies, Scotch whisky. Wouldn't be able to tell you though whether that's correct or not.
All the best
Catriona
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MaryB
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 9:52 am
- Location: Greenock Scotland
Hi Malcolm - hope this helps you
Scotch as a term to refer to people from Scotland is too old school and many Scots find it offensive.
Legal Definition of Scotch Whisky
To legally be called Scotch whisky, the spirit must conform to the standards of The Scotch Whisky Act of 1988, which mandates that the spirit
Must be distilled at a Scottish distillery from water and malted barley, to which only other whole grains may be added, have been processed at that distillery into a mash, converted to a fermentable substrate only by endogenous enzyme systems, and fermented only by the addition of yeast,
Must have an alcoholic strength of less than 94.8% by volume so that it retains the flavor of the raw materials used in its production,
Must be matured in Scotland in oak casks for not less than three years, and
Must not contain any added substance other than water and caramel colour.
Scots and Scotch
Here are ways in which the word "Scots" is used as an adjective.
"Scots" - the name of the country is derived from the celtic Irish people who emigrated the 12 miles from Ireland to Argyll in the 5th and 6th centuries. The word "scoti" originally meant "bandits".
"Scot free" - comes from an early municipal tax called "scot" which came from an old Norse word "skot" rather than "Scot". If you did not have to pay the tax you were "scotfree" (note no capital letter and all one word). In modern usage it is often used as "Scot free" meaning exempt from payment or unpunished.
The exclamation "Great Scot" originated in America and refer to General Winfield Scott (1786-1866), probably due to his notorious fussiness and pomposity when he was a candidate for President.
"Scots ell" - a Scottish yard of 37 inches.
"Scots mile" - 1980 imperial yards (roughly 1810 metres) as distinct from the normal mile of 1760 yards.
"Scots blanket" - a hard, rough blanket.
"Scots pebble" - a semi-precious stone such as agate, found in hills and burns of Scotland.
"Scots Greys" - a Scottish cavalry regiment.
"Scots dyke" - an ancient earthwork which was constructed along part of the border with England.
Here are some phrases involving the word "Scotch" not all of which refer to the drink!
"Scotch" - the water of life and Scotland's national drink. The word is never used to describe the people of Scotland - they are "Scots", not Scotch or Scotsman not Scotchman!
"Scotch mahogany" - the wood of the alder tree which turns red when exposed to the light.
"Scotch horses" - a line of children running with their arms linked behind their backs.
"Scotch and English" - a children's game in which the two sides try to capture one another or an object.
"Scotch cuddy" - literally a Scottish horse but used to describe a peddlar.
"Scotch convoy" - accompanying a guest part or all of the way back home.
"Scotch and flummery" - a steamed custard!
"Scotch gravat" - a hug or a cuddle. "Gravat" can mean a woollen scarf - or a hangman's noose!
"Scotch broth" - a soup made with barley and vegetables and lamb.
"Scotch eggs" - hard boiled eggs wrapped in sausage meat coated with egg and breadcrumbs and fried. A variation is "Scotch carrots" where boiled carrots are used instead of eggs.
"Hop Scotch" - a children's game.
"Scotch woodcock" - eggs and cream on anchovy toast.
"Scotch fir" - the Scots pine tree which used to cover most of the Highlands.
"Butterscotch" - a sweetmeat made of brown sugar, milk and creamed butter.
"Scotch collops" - the word "collops" comes from the French "escallop" and so this dish is based on veal rolled in flour and cooked in butter.
"Scotch haddock pudding" - a main course rather than a sweet, this is made from flaked haddock mixed with mashed potatoes, herbs and baked in the oven until golden brown.
"Scotch trifle" - a sweet made from custard, sponge cakes, jam, sherry (and/or whisky or brandy) topped with sweetened cream, garnished with slivered almonds.
"Scotch catch" - in music, a short note on the beat followed by a long one.
"Scotch mist" - a thick drizzly mist often found in the Highlands.
"Scotch kale" - a variety of kale with purplish leaves.
"Scotch terrier" - a small, black, rough-haired terrier.
"Scotch cap" - a bonnet.
Scotch as a term to refer to people from Scotland is too old school and many Scots find it offensive.
Legal Definition of Scotch Whisky
To legally be called Scotch whisky, the spirit must conform to the standards of The Scotch Whisky Act of 1988, which mandates that the spirit
Must be distilled at a Scottish distillery from water and malted barley, to which only other whole grains may be added, have been processed at that distillery into a mash, converted to a fermentable substrate only by endogenous enzyme systems, and fermented only by the addition of yeast,
Must have an alcoholic strength of less than 94.8% by volume so that it retains the flavor of the raw materials used in its production,
Must be matured in Scotland in oak casks for not less than three years, and
Must not contain any added substance other than water and caramel colour.
Scots and Scotch
Here are ways in which the word "Scots" is used as an adjective.
"Scots" - the name of the country is derived from the celtic Irish people who emigrated the 12 miles from Ireland to Argyll in the 5th and 6th centuries. The word "scoti" originally meant "bandits".
"Scot free" - comes from an early municipal tax called "scot" which came from an old Norse word "skot" rather than "Scot". If you did not have to pay the tax you were "scotfree" (note no capital letter and all one word). In modern usage it is often used as "Scot free" meaning exempt from payment or unpunished.
The exclamation "Great Scot" originated in America and refer to General Winfield Scott (1786-1866), probably due to his notorious fussiness and pomposity when he was a candidate for President.
"Scots ell" - a Scottish yard of 37 inches.
"Scots mile" - 1980 imperial yards (roughly 1810 metres) as distinct from the normal mile of 1760 yards.
"Scots blanket" - a hard, rough blanket.
"Scots pebble" - a semi-precious stone such as agate, found in hills and burns of Scotland.
"Scots Greys" - a Scottish cavalry regiment.
"Scots dyke" - an ancient earthwork which was constructed along part of the border with England.
Here are some phrases involving the word "Scotch" not all of which refer to the drink!
"Scotch" - the water of life and Scotland's national drink. The word is never used to describe the people of Scotland - they are "Scots", not Scotch or Scotsman not Scotchman!
"Scotch mahogany" - the wood of the alder tree which turns red when exposed to the light.
"Scotch horses" - a line of children running with their arms linked behind their backs.
"Scotch and English" - a children's game in which the two sides try to capture one another or an object.
"Scotch cuddy" - literally a Scottish horse but used to describe a peddlar.
"Scotch convoy" - accompanying a guest part or all of the way back home.
"Scotch and flummery" - a steamed custard!
"Scotch gravat" - a hug or a cuddle. "Gravat" can mean a woollen scarf - or a hangman's noose!
"Scotch broth" - a soup made with barley and vegetables and lamb.
"Scotch eggs" - hard boiled eggs wrapped in sausage meat coated with egg and breadcrumbs and fried. A variation is "Scotch carrots" where boiled carrots are used instead of eggs.
"Hop Scotch" - a children's game.
"Scotch woodcock" - eggs and cream on anchovy toast.
"Scotch fir" - the Scots pine tree which used to cover most of the Highlands.
"Butterscotch" - a sweetmeat made of brown sugar, milk and creamed butter.
"Scotch collops" - the word "collops" comes from the French "escallop" and so this dish is based on veal rolled in flour and cooked in butter.
"Scotch haddock pudding" - a main course rather than a sweet, this is made from flaked haddock mixed with mashed potatoes, herbs and baked in the oven until golden brown.
"Scotch trifle" - a sweet made from custard, sponge cakes, jam, sherry (and/or whisky or brandy) topped with sweetened cream, garnished with slivered almonds.
"Scotch catch" - in music, a short note on the beat followed by a long one.
"Scotch mist" - a thick drizzly mist often found in the Highlands.
"Scotch kale" - a variety of kale with purplish leaves.
"Scotch terrier" - a small, black, rough-haired terrier.
"Scotch cap" - a bonnet.
Black Isle - Beaton Bethune Campbell
Inverness - Mackintosh
Aberdeen - Mitchell Leslie
Ireland - Cosgrove McGuire
Southshields - Patterson/Pattieson Campbell Sloan
Greenock - Boyle McPhail Blair McKechnie Clark
Inverness - Mackintosh
Aberdeen - Mitchell Leslie
Ireland - Cosgrove McGuire
Southshields - Patterson/Pattieson Campbell Sloan
Greenock - Boyle McPhail Blair McKechnie Clark
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AnneM
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There is of course also a Scottish mile which is one driven on a single track, road stopping for cows, sheep and tractors and therefore proportionally longer than the English variety.
Anne
Scotch was used in Victorian times and before but is no longer deemed acceptable except for whisky or pies. (or tape) (or rumours for that matter).
Anne
Scotch was used in Victorian times and before but is no longer deemed acceptable except for whisky or pies. (or tape) (or rumours for that matter).
Anne
Researching M(a)cKenzie, McCammond, McLachlan, Kerr, Assur, Renton, Redpath, Ferguson, Shedden, Also Oswald, Le/assels/Lascelles, Bonning just for starters
Researching M(a)cKenzie, McCammond, McLachlan, Kerr, Assur, Renton, Redpath, Ferguson, Shedden, Also Oswald, Le/assels/Lascelles, Bonning just for starters
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Tracey
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- Location: England
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DavidWW
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Scozzie
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- Location: NSW Australia
I'm a born Scot, not a born Scotch, but there's a wee bit of Scotch running in my veins. An ENGLISH friend kept telling me I was English, he stopped when I said he was Welsh!
I had an experience in a Greek restaurant a few years ago, the waiter tried to tell me he had a Greek Scotch! I told him Scotch only comes from Scotland, he could maybe call it a Greek whisky (OK, I'm pedantic when it comes to certain things). Can't remember the name of the whisky, it might have been Whiskedopopolopolous.
Why don't we have an emoticon with a glass?
I had an experience in a Greek restaurant a few years ago, the waiter tried to tell me he had a Greek Scotch! I told him Scotch only comes from Scotland, he could maybe call it a Greek whisky (OK, I'm pedantic when it comes to certain things). Can't remember the name of the whisky, it might have been Whiskedopopolopolous.
Why don't we have an emoticon with a glass?Adam/Aird/Bell/Beveridge/Clark/Davidson/Dunn/Millar/Morning/ McKinlay/McVake/McVickers/Pryde/Robertson..... and Smith!
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JustJean
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......wan reason jist micht be that we drink richt frae th' boattle roond here.....Scozzie wrote: I had an experience in a Greek restaurant a few years ago, the waiter tried to tell me he had a Greek Scotch! I told him Scotch only comes from Scotland, he could maybe call it a Greek whisky (OK, I'm pedantic when it comes to certain things). Can't remember the name of the whisky, it might have been Whiskedopopolopolous.
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Malcolm
- Posts: 213
- Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:53 pm
- Location: Leeds. Yorkshire
I should have known that it wouldn't take you all long to turn this important subject round in favour of the falling down water. Tut tut! Personally, I never touch the stuff. Well, not with my hands anyway.
Perhaps I can put another question to you, If I pour some Scotch and drink to your health, will it be ok to claim the cost against tax?
MM
Perhaps I can put another question to you, If I pour some Scotch and drink to your health, will it be ok to claim the cost against tax?
MM
Morris (formerly Morrice) of Fife and Geekie of Scone
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Davie
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- Location: Glasgow
Greetin's all
Mary Bs post sums this up, and it wiz well pit acroas.
I have already copied it and wid advise ye all tae dae the same, it'll come in handy at a future date.
I hope everyone taks tent oan that.
Only the numpties, who know nowt on ther' ain Mither tongue will gie yie gyp oan this. (nine times oot o' ten Colonials)
I have had many a stooshie on a few boards on this subject.
If you ever test onywan o' thaem that try tae lecture ye:
"Scotch is what we call whisky"
I have never encountered wan that has a clue aboot oor language!
Scotch or Scots, makes nae difference.
You decide yersel whit version tae use.
Awrabest
Davie.
Mary Bs post sums this up, and it wiz well pit acroas.
I have already copied it and wid advise ye all tae dae the same, it'll come in handy at a future date.
I hope everyone taks tent oan that.
Only the numpties, who know nowt on ther' ain Mither tongue will gie yie gyp oan this. (nine times oot o' ten Colonials)
I have had many a stooshie on a few boards on this subject.
If you ever test onywan o' thaem that try tae lecture ye:
"Scotch is what we call whisky"
I have never encountered wan that has a clue aboot oor language!
Scotch or Scots, makes nae difference.
You decide yersel whit version tae use.
Awrabest
Davie.