Newby here, needs help

[desley]

Good morning, I'm new to this site, but hope that someone can point me in the right direction.

I am trying to trace William MILNE, nurseryman ansd seedsman, and his wife Martha. I don't know her maiden name. Their 8 children were all baptised in Finchley, MDX between 1795 and 1810. William & Martha did not marry at Finchley, but both died there. The 1841 British census records William aged 80 years living with a daughter and her family at Finchley. He died in 1844. His birthplace is given as Scotland.
His headstone in the Finchley churchyard gives his age at death in 1844 as 87 years. So he was either born in 1761, if I am to believe the 1841 census, which I think rounded adults ages down, or 1757 if his headstone is right.
Martha's headstone indicates that she was born on 1770. She died in 1836.

I don't know how to go about tracing in Scotland. I've always thought that the MILNE name would eventually lead me to Scotland, but now I've arrived and am not sure where I should start looking. Without a county or other pointer, how difficult is it going to be to find 'my' William?

I'm looking for both a marriage and a birth.

I would be grateful for any suggestions.
Best wishes, Desley

[AnneM]

Hello Desley

Welcome to Talking Scot. Between your possible birth dates for William there are 36 births for William Milne recorded on the Scotland's People website. The vast majority are from the North East of Scotland i.e. Aberdeenshire, Banffshire and Angus.

Do you have names of William and Martha's children as that might give clues as to the names of his parents. I can't see an obvious marriage at present.

Anne

[Russell]

Hi Desley Welcome to

This sounds a bit of a challenge I used the free name search on scotlandspeople.gov.uk and it produced the following:

searched for "" "Milne" 1780 - 1850

Refine search
Search results Found
Census 1841.Learn more. 7210 matches
Old Parish Records Births & Christenings 1780 - 1850.Learn more. 9431 matches
Old Parish Records Banns & Marriages 1780 - 1850.Learn more. 6130 matches
Old Parish Records Deaths & Burials 1780 - 1850.Learn more. 3182 matches
Catholic Parish Records Births & Baptisms 1780 - 1850.Learn more. 388 matches
Catholic Parish Records Marriages 1780 - 1850.Learn more. 36 matches
Catholic Parish Records Deaths & Burials 1780 - 1850.Learn more. 31 matches
Catholic Parish Records Other 1780 - 1850.Learn more. 652 matches
Wills & Testaments 1780 - 1850.Learn more. 354 matches
Arms & Heraldry 1780 - 1850.Learn more. 824 matches

I deliberately restricted the date span otherwise the return would have been much greater.
I tried entering only the surname in familysearch.org - I.G.I. search site to highlight regional concentrations of the name, and almost every entry, whether Birth Marriage or Death, which came up was around Aberdeen so that should help your search options.
Someone who subscribes to Ancestry.com may be able to locate him using his occupation but you appear to have most of his life details in England.
Once you have located a likely candidate you would need to use the OPR (Old Parochial Registers) which are held by scotlandspeople.gov.uk. OPR results are very variable. Some have been lost or entries were not made at the time; others are rather basic in the amount of information they contain. Occasionally you came across a gem which offers just the info you need. That is the one that restores your faith in a record system.

Good luck in your searches

Russell
Edit Anne beat me to it but my approach was a guide to' how to do it' in the Scottish record system

[trish1]

There is a marriage 30 July 1794 at Southwark St Saviour between William Milne and Martha Morely - both "of this parish" - suits the dates of the children - but doesn't find any parents.

Trish

[desley]

Thankyou Anne, Russell and Trish for your responses and helpful suggestions.

The names of the children were Ann, William, Mary, George, Alexander, Martha, James and another Mary. Not exactly uncommon names.

I have seen the Southwark marriage and also wonder if it's the right couple. As you say, Trish, the dates are right, but I don't think it's something I can hang my hat on.

I have a birthday present promised, would it be better for me to subscribe to Ancestry, Find my Past or Scotland's People for this search?

Thanks again,
Desley

[trish1]

Hi Desley

For Scottish searching ScotlandsPeople has the definitive information - but it is pay to view - so no subscription. There are free sites, however that can also help. The IGI http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/ ... _form=true is a good starting point with quite a good coverage of early Scotland - but look at the "extracted"records, rather than submitted ones. The IGI search technique for names can also find folks that you may initially miss on SP. The new LDS search is also getting better every day - http://www.familysearch.org.

If you have alot of london ancestors the LMA on ancestry are a wonderful resource - but many libraries provide access to ancestry for their members so that is also an option.

I did look for your children. I think I may have found a slight variation to what you found
viz for the 2nd daughter I found Jane - Jane - Mar 2 1800 - Jane dr of William and Martha Milne - I could not find a suitable Mary between William(1796) and George(1802). I found an Ann Millis - daughter of William and Ann 1798.
As it is the 2nd daughter could be important - the Scottish naming standards
1st son - paternal grandfather
2nd son - maternal grandfather
3rd son - father
1st daughter - maternal grandmother
2nd daughter - paternal grandmother
3rd daughter - mother

So from your named children the parents of William Milne would be William and Mary - from the names I found - William and Jane.

From my research, the english did not follow this pattern (although they often named children after their parents) so if the marriage was Scottish father & English mother - it may not be reliable - and of course, not all Scottish families used these standards.

Given the date of your searching, some of the parish records only contain the name of the father. I searched on WIlliam and Jane and found one baptism (WIlliam & Jean) in 1754 - slightly early - and a couple of suitables with just William. I didn't look for William and Mary. Try the IGI as they were all on there. If you find someone on the IGI the actual image of the baptism will be on SP. For the time frame it will probably give not much more information than is on the index - but sometimes gives a location within the parish and/or father's occupation.

Trish

[desley]

Hello Trish,

Thanks for your help and the trouble you've taken. About the name of the second daughter, I'm sure it's Mary as I personally searched the LMA Finchley parish register microfilm a few years ago. Was what you found a transcription of the original? also, was it on the IGI? I've checked the IGI in the past, but didn't get any hits. I must admit, I don't like the new familysearch. I think I must be getting resistant to change!

However I will give it another burl and see what comes up. Your suggestion is that I find a likely candidate on the IGI and then check Scotland's People for more detail?

Thanks again,
Desley

[trish1]

Hi Desley

I checked the LMA records also - found nothing on the IGI - for London the LMA is very much better than the IGI.

When I am checking Scotland I usually check the IGI first (cause it is free ) If I then find any likely candidates I check the parish records on SP. I've just realised you are in Australia too - given the current exchange rate SP is an amazing resource - $2 for a certificate - compared to $17 to $40 for Australian certificates - I have so many from Scotland

I've sent you a pm - re mary vs jane on the lma records

Trish

[Alan SHARP]

Hi Trish, you have an interesting exchange rate going there ! ₤12 = Au$2

Alan SHARP.

[SarahND]

Hi Trish, you have an interesting exchange rate going there ! ₤12 = Au$2

Alan,
I'm sure Trish is talking about how much it costs to download one certificate from SP, not how much it costs to order an extract from England or Scotland. Or was that a typo and your £12 was meant to be £1.2?

Regards,
Sarah