From Southwark to Glasgow via New Zealand

[Mo-anne]

My g grand fatherwas born in Southwark in 1862 and subsequently appeared in Glasgow: I am trying to find out something about his journey to Glasgow.

Edward James Hartenstein was born in Southwark in 1862. His parents were Jaques Hartenstein and Mry Melluish who married in 1855 in Surrey. The couple had at least three children: Louis, Francis and Edward . Jaques was French but was awarded British citizenship in 1974. He was a respectable businessman according to the naturalisation papers – an opera hat manufacturer – but in then tragedy struck the family and in 1879 Jacques died alone in a poorhouse in London. His eldest son Louis died only two months later in Jan 1880. (one of his grandsons reasearched all this and has given me copies to substantiate all these facts) .

I have found Edward in 1881 in the census in England – he was 18 and living with his married sister, her husband and his widowed mother. His employment was given as an engineer’s clerk.

In 1895, Edward married his landlady, Margaret Riddle in Glasgow and they had three children. His grandson told me that Edward changed his name to Hart in 1911 due to his sons being bullied at school because of their German sounding name in the run-up to the First World War.

Why he came to Glasgow, we don’t know. He left England as a teenager to work on a clipper ship aafter his father death and he apparently had an accident in New Zealand and one leg had to be amputated. I suspect he may have settled in Glasgow because that was where the ship docked after his accident

He wrote a regular column for a Glasgow paper – the Evening News - under the pen name Top Sail - based on his sailing experiences. According to family legend, he sailed with Joseph Conrad and helped Joseph Conrad learn English ( Edward was privately educated in Winchester before tragedy struck and spoke several foreign languages fluently) He died in 1939 in Helensburgh

Can anyone suggest some leads/sources for the following:

Clipper ships from New Zealand to Glasgow – is there a record anywhere/any crew list? Would an accident be reported anywhere – we don’t know exactly where it took place.

Archives of newspapers – is there any way to check where/when he wrote – I’m told by an elderly relative it was for the Evening Times in Glasgow – but I have no idea when or for how long - I'd love to read what he wrote(

I ‘d be grateful for any help.

Mo

[Currie]

Hello Mo,

Many old New Zealand newspapers have been digitised and are at PapersPast. The only reference I could see to what looks like him there was in the Otago Daily Times, 3 June 1887, with Edward James Hartenstein as a steerage passenger on the Aorangi departed Lyttelton NZ on June 2 bound for London. http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bi ... tenstein--

I couldn’t find anything anywhere about an accident.

The Evening Times has been digitised at Google News Archive but only from 1950 so it’s a bit late for him. http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2 ... de=2&hl=en The Glasgow Herald has a wider coverage (1810-1990) http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=G ... de=2&hl=en

They are very useful for browsing but the search facility of both newspapers has usually been not much use and has recently been downgraded to something less than that.

As far as I know they have hard copies of the Evening Times archives at the Mitchell Library.

The name Hartenstein seems to appear in a book about Joseph Conrad but may not be relevant. http://www.google.com.au/search?tbm=bks ... d%22&btnG=

Here’s some info about finding records of a Merchant Seaman before 1917. You would need to know the name of the ship to get a crew list. http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/reco ... lp=rg-3179

Hope that helps a bit,
Alan

[Mo-anne]

Many thanks for this.

""Many old New Zealand newspapers have been digitised and are at PapersPast. The only reference I could see to what looks like him there was in the Otago Daily Times, 3 June 1887, with Edward James Hartenstein as a steerage passenger on the Aorangi departed Lyttelton NZ on June 2 bound for London. ""

I've looked at this and the dates are possible : there were not many Hartensteins in UK in 1890's so as it's his exact name, it may well be Edward on his way back to Uk as a passenger after his accident. The boat was going to London (where his widowed mother was living) - although how/why he got to Glasgow......??

" The name Hartenstein seems to appear in a book about Joseph Conrad but may not be relevant. ""

From what I found about this book in the internet, it certainly sounds like Edward as it refers to Edward James Hartenstein from London : I shall have to try and get hold a copy. The dates also appear to be right although it's not totally clear from the limited info visible on internet

As for the info about newspapers etc - thanks, it gives me some leads to follow.

[nelmit]

Hello Mo Anne,

Have you ever thought of contacting The Mitchell Library in case he, or any of his family, applied for poor relief? I see he's living at Bridgeton with his family in 1901. A high proportion of families living there applied for poor relief at some time.

I don't get there much these days but I'll keep a note of his name for when I do.

Regards,
Annette