Help to find Elusive Sinclair!.....

[Ken]

I have a marriage certificate of my parents stating
Thomas Sinclair age 23 married Margaret Cable Simpson age 23 on 7th February 1918 Perth Scothland.
How can I get a birth certificate of my father as I don't know his exact birthday. Also on the marriage certificate is his stepmother Emma Lawrence (who was married before ,married name Barrie) gets complicated doesn't it and his father Hugh Sinclair. His father married before to a Catherine Garvin or Garaven but can't find anything that states she might be his mother as I cannot find when Catherine died. I can find Hugh's parents who are Hugh Sinclair and Christina Munro. I have tried many avenues even going to Registrars and also looking on many sites but to no avail.
Has anyone got any ideas. I am new to tracing my families history and have no family left to ask.
Regards Ken

[WilmaM]

If Thomas Sinclair was aged 23 when he married in 1918 then his birth in 1894 or 1895 should be available on the Scotland's people site - if he was born in Scotland.
Follow the link to Scotland's People at the top of the page.

He will be on the 1901 census on Scotland's People too [ along with parents and siblings]. Though if they were living in England or Wales at that time their census details will be on http://www.1901census.nationalarchives. ... index.html

You will have to register at Scotland's People and buy credits but will then be able to search and view the entries for births, deaths and marriages in Scotland [ up to certain years].

Thomas' Birth certificate will give his parent's names and probably date of marriage, a look at that will give you their parent's names too. Then you can look for his father's 2nd marriage too, and his mother's death.

You've got plenty there to get you stared, but if you need any help - just ask here, we'll be delighted to set you off on this facinating hobby.

[JustJean]

Hi there Ken and Welcome to TalkingScot!

Like Wonka points out there should be some good information available right through the Scotlands People website. It helps to know though where a person was born in order to narrow up the choices....and Sinclair is not exactly an unusual name!!!! I had a look for a death of Catherine Garvin Sinclair and was not successful in finding one yet. I also had a look for a death of Christina Munro Sinclair and found 3 but haven't viewed them. Perhaps the one in Little Dunkeld will be the right one but I'm out of credits at the moment for further searching!! According to the IGI index there are a whole lot of submissions for children born to Hugh Sinclair and Christina Munro but there is also one from batch C113871 that catches my eye....Robert b 27 AUg 1855!! Finding this on SP and viewing it would be worthwhile when working your way backward. The submission for a Hugh Sinclair born about 1858 I'm assuming is your grandfather. Knowing he was married first to a Catherine I am also assuming this might be him on the 1881 Census (of course this was well before your dad was born in 1894 or 5 but the other data all seems to make sense....except I don't know where Hugh Sr's wife Christina might have been on census day.....hmmmm) I'm wondering if you know what occupation your grandfather had????

Dwelling: 132 High St
Census Place: Perth Middle Church, Perth, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203512 GRO Ref Volume 387 EnumDist 25 Page 13
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Hugh SINCLAIR M 23 M Perth, Perth, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Hammerman
Catherine SINCLAIR M 21 F Perth, Perth, Scotland
Rel: Wife
Hugh SINCLAIR 2 M Perth, Perth, Scotland
Rel: Son
John SINCLAIR 11 m M Perth, Perth, Scotland
Rel: Son
Hugh SINCLAIR M 60 M Perth, Perth, Scotland
Rel: Father
Occ: Rope Spinner
Robert SINCLAIR U 25 M Perth, Perth, Scotland
Rel: Brother
Occ: Shoemaker

A further search on SP in the 1901 census should help pinpoint your dad Thomas living with his parents. Hopefully some of the names above could help you tie them all together......

Best I can offer at this point.....but I'm sure with everyone's help we'll be able to get you all sorted out

Best wishes
Jean

[Ken]

Thanks very much for your help but have already investigated all the names mentioned in replies received from 'Talking Scotland' and numerous other searches, each time information does not link up from firm established data. Cannot find Catherine Garaven or Garvin's death which would tell me if she was still alive in 1894/5 which would mean that she was my father's mother. If she was then I could send for the birth certificate with their names on it. The trouble is that I cannot find her death anywhere.
There is a Catherine Sinclair at Newcastle on Tyne died age 28 quarter September Year 1885 Volume 10b Page 8 but this does not state her maiden name so don't know.
Very much appreciate your help
Ken

[WilmaM]

Ken,

Perhaps you could share all the 'established' data that you do have.

Birth , marriage or death certificates, Places, dates etc

Bearing in mind that sometimes ages weren't always accurate and parent's names could be slighty inaccurate.

We'd love to help you further

[Ken]

Thank you again for your interest.
This is all the information I have starting at the oldest.

Hugh Sinclair , Ropespinner married Christian Munro at Perth said Daughter of George Munro, Sailor in Perth 25th day of March 1839.
The above particulars are extracted from a Register of Proclomations of Banns dated 35th March 1839.

Son Hugh (My Grandfather) born 1858 Perth Gasmeter Maker, Fish Market Close. At age 20
Married Catherine Garvin born 1859 August 27 South ST . Perth, Powerloom Weaver on 27th November Speygate Perth. Father
Martin, General Labourer. Mother Margaret maiden name Nairn or Kain.

Hugh Sinclair(grandfather) died 19 Barossa St. Perth 1932 13th August age 74 years. It states on death cert. that Hugh was the widower of Widow no. 1------- and no.2 Amy Jane Lawrence or Barrie. Parents
Hugh Sinclair and Christina Munro. Son Thomas informent

Marriage Cert. 1905
Hugh Sinclair age 48. Sheet Metal Worker Widower 145 High St Perth married Amy Jane Barrie Widow age 49. 145 High St Perth
Parents Hugh Sinclair. Ropemaker dec. and Christina Sinclair maiden surname Munro
Parents William Lawrence. Tinsmith dec. and Dinah Lawrence maiden name Fensome dec.

Marriage Cert. 1918
Thomas Sinclair (My Father) age 23. 19 Barossa St. Perth. Railway Stoker married
Margaret Cable Simpson age23. 48 Glover St. Perth. Dyers Finisher, at
St. Johns West Manse , Dundee Road, Perth.
Parents Hugh Sinclair. Gasfitter, and Emma Sinclair maiden name Lawerance.
Parents Thomas Simpson , House Painter.
Ellen Ann Simpson, maiden name Sturrock.
Witnesses, Annie Veitch Simpson and Robert Sinclair.

Death Certificate.
Thomas Sinclair. Night watchman retired, 1957 December 9th 7.0pm age 63 years. 4 Breadalbane Terrace Perth. Married to Margaret Cable Simpson.
Father Hugh Sinclair. Gasfitter. Deceased. Mother -Sinclair . Deceased.

Also the 1881 Census 132 High St. Perth that you confirmed.
Thank you again
Ken.

[sporran]

Hello Ken,


there may, just may, be an added complication.

I could not find any sign of your grandfather Hugh in Scotland for the 1891 or 1901 census, so the death in 1885 in Newcastle of Catherine (28) starts to look significant.

In Byker for 1891 we find the following:
Hugh Sinclair, 37, tinsmith/gasfitter, born Scotland
Sarah, 36, wife, born Hexham
Hugh 12, John 10, Wm 8, all born Scotland.

In 1901, also Byker:
Hugh, 42 (52?), gasfitter, born Scotland
Sarah 40 (50?), born Hexham
John, 20, born Scotland
Wm, 19, born Scotland
Thomas, 9, born Newcastle.

The names and ages fit of the children match the 1881 details. Sarah Sinclair, 50, died in June quarter 1901 in Newcastle district.

However, why does Thomas not name his mother on his father's death? Surely he would have remembered her, since he was 9 when she died. The death entry for Hugh shows only 2 marriages because Thomas may not have known about Catherine.

Your best way of making progress is to risk £7 on the birth certificate for Thomas. You can state that his parents must be Thomas and Sarah, and you will not be charged if they are not. You will pay £7 if they were the parents, but tough luck if it is not your family.

It is up to you whether you request the death certificate of Catherine, but it will tell you next to nothing - certainly not her maiden name.


Regards,

John

[WilmaM]

The 1901 England Census has a

Hugh Sinclair, age 42, born Scotland, Byker Northumberland occ. Gasfitter

Looks like that's your man there - no wonder you couldn't find him in Scotland - he was in England !

Over to Sporran now to help you further [ he's good at things south of the Border ]
woops he already has

[Ken]

Thank you all for your help and info.
I will send for the birth cert. of Thomas 9 born Newcastle.
I remember when I was a small boy (long time ago) that my mother took me to Newcastle to visit some people but I don't know where in Newcastle or their names so perhaps this one in Byker is looking more and more possible.
Perhaps my Grandfather married 3 times. As you have found, John, that Sarah died age 50 in 1901 and Hugh married Amy Jane Lawrence in 1905 things may be moving in the right direction at last.
Here's hoping the research is proving fruitfull at long last.
Best Wishes
Ken.

[Ken]

I sent for the Birth Cert. of Thomas Sinclair which states.

9th November 1892 . 9. Melrose Street. Byker . Newcastle upon Tyne.
Thomas, boy
Father. Hugh Sinclair. Tinsmith. Journeyman
Mother. Sarah Sinclair. late Stokoe formerly Ord.

I can find the marriage of Sarah to Stokoe but I would like to find if Hugh Sinclair's parents were Hugh Sinclair and Christina Munro.

I feel like I am nearly there, finding where my Father was born, but not quite.

Anyone got any suggestions?