Kelly and Rhinds

[ShineKelly]

Looking for any info on my Kelly ancestors - does the following info fit with anyone's tree?

Have recently found a marriage cert for my great grandfather John Kelly (born about 1892) to Margaret Rhinds (born June 1895). Margaret's parents were John Rhinds and Agnes Caine/Kane (have two different certificate spellings of her name).
He was a widower at the time. His parents are John Kelly and Bridget Gibbons.
Lived in Glasgow.
Children are;
Agnes
Donald
James
John
William
Robert (born Aug 1914 in Glasgow - my grandfather) in 1936 Robert was living at 31 Govanhill Rd.

I note that the marriage is a number of years after my grandfather was born. I have few birthdates and no record of who John was previously married to. It is possible some children were from his previous marriage I guess.
Searches of family search not bringing up anything that I can find.

[AndrewP]

Hi ShineKelly,



I have had a dig around on ScotlandsPeople. The documents that are readily found, you may already have:

Marriage: 1920 John Kelly & Margaret Rhinds (ages 28 and 24 respectively)
1901 census: Bridget Kelly with 5 of her children, without her husband
1891 census: John & Bridget Kelly and 5 of their children (including John - he was older than he declared on his 1920 marriage certificate)
John's birth certificate - same address that the family can be found in the 1891 and 1901 censuses.
Marriage: 1881 John Kelly and Bridget Gibbons

I couldn't find an obvious census page for the family in the 1911 census.

All the best,

AndrewP

[WilmaM]

welcome to TS

Do you have John Kelly's [b. 1892] Death Certificate? that should give his previous wife's name [if known to the informer]

or any census records for the family?

You don't say when the Kelly/Rhinds marriage was
or what ages or births years you have for any of the children.

That may help us with the next steps.

[AndrewP]

Hi again ShineKelly,

Following on from Wilma's post, I see what I assume to be the death certificates of John Kelly and Margaret Kelly (ms. Rhinds) listed in the ScotlandsPeople index. As these are in the 1970s and 1980s, the certificates cannot be viewed online. If you are convinced that these are the right people, then for a price, you can order their death certificates to be sent to you from SP. As Wilma says, John's death certificate should show the names of both of his wives, assuming they were both known to the person who informed the registrar of the death.

All the best,

AndrewP

[ShineKelly]

Hello again - I had no idea there would be people that would have access to see records!
I was just wondering if anyone had these people in their trees!

I am in New Zealand and have never had contact with anyone from my paternal side until my father died in June - so all the info I have is very new to me (having extensively researched my maternal side over the past five years).

I had no idea of the dates John and Margaret died and I am so surprised to see you say it may have been as late as the 1970s and 1980s!
From what I can tell my father never had contact with his family after he moved to Australia as a teen in the 1950s. There were no letters etc in any of his belongings.
I have no death certs for these people (or ideas of when they died or where they were buried) and just recently found the sister of my father (who is not from the Kelly side as it turns out she was actually his half sister) and her daughter has passed the 9th July 1920 marriage cert of Margaret and John Kelly and the 21June 1895 birth cert of Margaret Rhinds to me.

It is new info to me that Bridget and John had at least 5 children. I don't even have full names or birthdates for John and Margaret's children! (I have provided all the dates for these people that I know - to answer WilmaP).
It is likely that Robert's brothers John and James were in the military as I have a photo I think is each of them - James in navy uniform and John I think in army uniform (if it is them - my father's half sister has said it is them in two unlabelled photos).
In NZ we have a free cenotaph databade provided by the Auckland museum which has been very useful finding birthdates and even photos of my great uncles on my maternal side - I have looked for a British equivalent but have not found one.

It is great to finally have some leads on this after all these years! (thanks!)

[AndrewP]

Hi ShineKelly,

You can see any of these Scottish records at http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk on a pay per view basis. The older records themselves can be viewed online: up to 100 years ago (censuses and births), up to 75 years ago (marriages) and up to 50 years ago (deaths). For the births, marriages and deaths more recent than these, the index entries can be seen, but not the records themselves. These newer records can be purchased from ScotlandsPeople, but at a higher price. See the ScotlandsPeople website for more details.

There were at least six children - four of them were on both censuses, plus one on the 1891 only (could have left home by 1901, or possibly died) and one on the 1901 only (born after 1891).

All the best,

AndrewP

[LesleyB]

Hi Shinekelly

In NZ we have a free cenotaph databade provided by the Auckland museum which has been very useful finding birthdates and even photos of my great uncles on my maternal side - I have looked for a British equivalent but have not found one.

There are two free sources I can think of for searching for the death of Scots and Commomwealth soldiers in WW1 & 2:
www.snwm.org
www.cwgc.org

Best wishes
Lesley