John Fraser

Looking for Scottish Ancestors

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ali2511
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:10 pm

John Fraser

Post by ali2511 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:09 am

Hi

I hope someone can help.

I've been looking to find the birth place and even the date of my GGG Grandfather:

John Fraser (Tidewaiter)

he's on the 1841 Greenock, Renfrew census with his wife Jane and children, James, Mary Joseph & Jane, his wife and children show as being born in Ireland, and it says he was born in Scotland but there's no county, can you anyone help me track him down, he was married in 1828 in Londonderry to Jane Mcfarland.

Thanks so much for anything! :)

paddyscar
Site Admin
Posts: 2418
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Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: John Fraser

Post by paddyscar » Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:54 am

In the 1841 census, does it give his age? Or those of his family?

http://www.ScotlandsPeople.gov.uk

"Points to note about the 1841 Census:

Although the names of household members were recorded, the head of the household was not denoted and therefore relationship of household members to the head is absent.
Enumerators were instructed to round down the ages of persons 15 years and over to the nearest five years. Hence a given age of 28 would be recorded as 25, one of 63 as 60 and so on. If a person lied about their age, this, combined with the rounding down, could severely distort the actual age. You will find instances where enumerators did not adhere to this instruction on age and inserted the given age.
Birthplace details were less specific than in later years, recording only whether or not the person was born in the county where the census took place, or whether a person was English, Irish or Foreign."

You may already have the definition of Tide Waiter: a customs official. Boarded and inspected boats and ships to check for smuggled goods and to collect duty.

Not much help, I'm afraid but hopefully you have a little more that you can add.

Paddyscar
John Kelly (b 22 Sep 1897) eldest child of John Kelly & Christina Lipsett Kelly of Glasgow

nelmit
Posts: 4002
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:49 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: John Fraser

Post by nelmit » Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:43 am

Did you have a look at James' death entry to see if his parents names were given?
JustJean wrote:Hi Ali.......................

His death is found indexed on SP as:

1 1892 FRASER JAMES M 63 CALTON (GLASGOW) GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/04 0296

I had to track the McCallion family by births and deaths of their children and then where they were living in 1901 to find the right areas to look for the DC. When I found son Joseph Frasers marriage in 1903 that definately stated his father was dec'd by then I had a good window of 1891 to 1903 to look in. I crossed my fingers at that point that it just might have occured in Scotland and voila! :D

Best wishes
Jean

ali2511
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:10 pm

Re: John Fraser

Post by ali2511 » Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:24 am

Hi

Thanks for the replies, this is what I have for the census for John Fraser, I'm guessing the ages are correct then?

Name: John Fraser
Age: 59
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1782
Gender: Male
Where born: Scotland

Civil parish: Greenock St Andrews
County: Renfrewshire
Address: 3 Sir Michael St
Occupation: Tidewaiter
Parish Number: 564
Household Members: Name Age
John Fraser 59
Jane Fraser 46
James Fraser 9
Joseph Fraser 6
Jane Fraser 12
Mary Fraser 7

Yes, I have James Fraser's death certificate with his parents as John Fraser & Jane McFarland, it's John Fraser who I'm trying to track down :)

Thanks again

nelmit
Posts: 4002
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:49 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: John Fraser

Post by nelmit » Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:45 am

Sorry - getting my generations confused. :)

Regards,
Annette

ali2511
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:10 pm

Re: John Fraser

Post by ali2511 » Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:12 am

No worries I get very confused :)

WilmaM
Posts: 1920
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:46 am
Location: Falkirk area

Re: John Fraser

Post by WilmaM » Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:00 am

To re-ask nelmit's question:

have you found John Fraser's Death certificate to see if his parents are mentioned?

have you found the family on any other census records? the 1851 onwards should give more info on birth place?

or did he die out of Scotland or before 1855? which would make things trickier.
Wilma

ali2511
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:10 pm

Re: John Fraser

Post by ali2511 » Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:53 pm

Hi

Unfortunately I don't have a death certificate for him, I also can't find them on the next census or any other census, I think they moved to Northern Ireland as I know his son James was married there. The only trail I have is this census and I seem to be stuck there.

Thanks again

JustJean
Posts: 2520
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:52 am
Location: Maine USA

Re: John Fraser

Post by JustJean » Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:36 pm

I knew that tidewaiter term rang a bell.......it's the old fidewaiter case!!! I wish I had more magic tricks up my sleeve for you. You may have reached the end of the Fraser line on this one. Not sure if you've considered these angles but thought i'd toss them out. Always remember that when you can't move backward in a straight line....try going sideways. Since you have found a marriage date and place for John and Jane you should consider searching for other Fraser marriages in that parish and within a few years either side on the off chance John was not off in Londonderry on his own when he got hitched. Look for a marriage of what could be his sibling/s and then try and track them. Not easy i realize but unless you look at every possibility you might miss an obvious clue. You might learn the whole Fraser family had moved there from Scotland. One other long shot would be to consider the occupation of tidewaiter. Perhaps John moved about following this line of work. He may have been a tidewaiter in Londonderry? His father may have been a tidewaiter before him in Scotland? Form a theory and try to prove or disprove it. Check the National Archives for both Scotland and Ireland to see what sort of records might be extant relative to customs officials from this era. You might get lucky and find your Frasers always living in a port collecting import fees.

Good luck in the search!

Jean

ali2511
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:10 pm

Re: John Fraser

Post by ali2511 » Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:19 am

Hi Jean

Thanks for replying, I will try that and see if there were other marriages, I never even thought of it so thanks again :)

Ali