John Munro - Cant Find His Marriage

[darylrodger]

Hi,

I'm trying to find the marriage of John Munro & Janet Thomson, it was supposedly on 28 Oct 1869 in Wemyss, Fife but I can't find it on SP.
It was stated on their son Donald's birth cert in 1870.

I would also like to know why their subsequent children, John b. 14 Dec 1874 in Fife, & Elizabeth b. 25 Feb 1879 in Wemyss, Fife were classed as illigimate on both
their birth certs. If their parents divorced and had children would any children born to them be deemed illigimate ?

Thanks,

Daryl

[speleobat2]

Daryl,

There is a tree on Ancestry which has this family in it: Janice Smith Family Tree. It has the marriage taking place in Glasgow. Also it has the children Donald being born in Glasgow, John in Burntisland, Fife, Robert in England in 1877, and Elizabeth in Leven, Fife. Might be worth looking at if you haven't already seen it.

Also, have you found a death cert. for John Munro Sr. yet? That might have info on the marriage.

Carol

[darylrodger]

Hi Carol,

Thanks for that, but I already know about Janice Smith's tree that's where I found the info on the Munro's.

Donald was born in Glasgow on 7 July 1870 in George St, but it says his parents were married on 28 Oct 1869 in Wemyss, Fife
(according to his birth cert). His siblings John & Elizabeth are stated as illegitimate on their birth certs, I was wandering why
if their parents were married.

No, I haven't found Donald's father's death yet, I know both parents were alive when John married in 1907 but don't know where he might have
died.

Daryl

[speleobat2]

Hi again Daryl,

I've been poking around on SP and have come up with the following: First, the 1881 Census that Janice Smith uses states that John Sr. was a foreman in a Steel Works. I looked for deaths of the children and Elizabeth dies in 1883 age 4 yrs. in Blythswood, Glasgow. John Sr. is shown as deceased on her death cert. so I looked for his death and found one for a John Munro, Steelworker, who died in 1882. Problem: His parents are given as Donald Munro and Elizabeth McLean not the George Munro and Margaret Ross that Janice has in her family tree. His death cert. only says that he was married, not to whom! Ancestry also shows births of children for John Munro and Janet Thomson as follows: Andrew, Sarah, Robert, Donald, and John. Ancestry doesn't give dates of birth so the older children could have been out of the house by the 1881 Census.

Also, Ancestry has a John Munro and wife Janet with son Donald on the 1871 Census. This would be 10 years earlier for Donald's birth. This John Munro is also born in Rosskeen, Ross-shire as is the John Munro on the 1881 Census, but this 1871 John is a Mason not a steelworker. I guess it depends on how sure you are that the 1881 Census and Janice's family tree are the Munros you are looking for and it still doesn't answer the question of the first John Munro's marriage.

You have all my sympathy working with the Munros. My grandmother was a Munro from Aberdeen and I think I have found about half a million of them with an alarming number being named either John or Isabella!

Carol

[darylrodger]

Hi Carol,

Many thanks for that info you found regarding John Munro, it's much appreciated.

I found a death cert for a Janet's Thomson's death in 1933, which states she was a widow of 1. John Munro (steelworker) & 2. James Thomson (Riveter), so I assume the John you found who died in 1882 is this one. I think Janet divorced John and remarried, so she must have remarried between 1882 and 1907 which is when her son John weds Martha Richardson. Although it says this John Munro is still alive and is a carting contractor, and I know that this cert is my cousin's grandparents marriage and is pretty accurate.
I've had a look on SP for Janet's remarriage but haven't found anything. And I STILL haven't found John & Janet's marriage in 1869 in Wemyss
I've noticed on other trees on Ancestry that John's parents George & Margaret Ross were the parents of another John Munro who immigrated to South Africa and died there in the 1880's.
I also found a child born to John & Janet named Elizabeth McLean Munro in 1879, so maybe there is a connection there. Can you send me his death cert ? I'd be interested to see it. The children I found were Donald b.1870, John, b.1874 d.1956, Robert b. 1877 (in England) & Elizabeth b. 1879. I don't know how reliable these births are as 2 of them are illegitimate and may be wrong.

I also discounted the 1871 census with John & Janet with their son Donald as he would have only been a year old, not 10 yrs.

It's so frustrating trying to untangle which Munro is the one that's related to my cousin (who is related to Janice) on her mum's side I feel your pain

Daryl

[speleobat2]

Daryl,

I don't know how to forward a cert from SP to you, but John's death cert is easily found. Look for John Munro, 16 Dec 1882, Dennistoun, Lanark. What's confusing is that this cert says his parents were Donald Munro and Elizabeth McLean and the child Elizabeth's full name as you noted was Elizabeth McLean Munro with her parents being John Munro and Janet Thompson. This looks like a connection between the John who was a steel worker and Janet Thompson, the child Elizabeth and Donald Munro and Elizabeth McLean Munro. Where this family went from there is a challenge!

This John Munro died at the Black_____? Steel Works in an accident on a rail line I think. The handwriting is very hard to read. You might want to request a clean copy from SP.

Carol

[darylrodger]

Carol,

I've had a look at the death cert for John Munro, he died in the steel works in Blochairn, Dennistoun which is in the north side of town here in Glasgow. Your correct, it's quite hard to read what the cause of death was, but you can guess. . .
I have a feeling it's not the right one as the one mentioned on John Munro's marriage in 1907 in Paisley is still alive (well he isn't noted as deceased anyway) I've tried looking for his death and that of his wife's remarriage but without success. On their son John's death cert in 1956, it says that his mother Janet Munro, afterwards Thomson, m.s. Thomson so she must have divorced & remarried. If only I could find their original marriage cert !

I'll need to go into the genealogy centre and trawl through the records I think.

Thanks again.

Daryl

[speleobat2]

Did you get a copy of John Jr.'s marriage cert from SP or were you looking at the one posted on Ancestry? I looked at the one on Ancestry and thought that it had (dec) after John Sr.'s name? The writing isn't real clear on this posted cert. though.

Carol

[nelmit]

John, Janet and Donald Monro(age 8 months) are at George Street, Glasgow (where Donald was Born) in 1871. At this stage John is a labourer born Rosshire.
I agree that the family in 1881 at River St, Dennistoun where John is a Foreman at a Steelworks is the same. So it looks likely that this is John who died in 1882.
The ages are quite different on both census records so I think a look at the originals might help.

Regards,
Annette

[speleobat2]

I was wondering about Janet's age because the 1881 Census has her as 25 which would have made her 12 in 1869 when the marriage was supposed to have taken place. That would have been unlikely and probably illegal!

There is another Robert out there born in 1872 to John Munro and Janet Thomson who died in 1874 in Burntisland, Fife. He was also illegitimate. I'm wondering if Janet and John were married or just living together and saying that they were married. I have at least one of these relationships in my family tree complete with the date of marriage, but no paper work anywhere to be found.

Carol