Mary Blair, Carnwath.....

gen10 · Post by **gen10** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:02 pm

Can someone please help me with this query?
I have a 2x ggrandmother Mary Blair born around 1845 in Carnwath Lanarkshire. My problem is, is that I can’t find a birth certificate or a baptism record for her. I have searched SP and the IGI without success. Her mother was Jean Bryce and her father was James Blair, Jean and James were not married. I know they were not married because on her marriage certificate to Edward Crombie on the 21 June 1861 it states that James Blair is the “reputed father”. Mary died 28 March 1931 aged 86 at Burntisland, Fife; this makes her born around 1844-1845. All the census returns that I have for Mary 1871-1901 states that she was born in Carnwath Lanarkshire. I was sent information from the 1861 census and Mary is aged 18, this would make her born around 1843? She is living with her mother Jane/Jean Bryce aged 43 and a Joseph Blair aged 13. I was also given information from the 1851 census, Mary is aged 7 on this one and it looks like with her mother there are Bryce grandparents in the same household. Any help on this one would be gratefully received.
GEN10

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:59 am

Hi gen10

Perhaps no help but all I can see at the moment. Were the grandparents of Mary in 1851 named John and Christian? If so then this is likely the birth of Mary's mother Jean and her sisters....

1. MARY BRICE - International Genealogical Index - British Isles
Gender: Female Christening: 12 NOV 1815 Carnwath, Lanark, Scotland [Remove]
2. JEAN BRYCE - International Genealogical Index - British Isles
Gender: Female Christening: 14 SEP 1817 Carnwath, Lanark, Scotland [Remove]
3. JANET BRYCE - International Genealogical Index - British Isles
Gender: Female Christening: 10 OCT 1813 Carnwath, Lanark, Scotland

and from the BIVRI here is a brother...

BRYCE, John Christening
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 12 Dec 1811
Christening Date: 19 Jan 1812 Recorded in: Carnwath, Lanarkshire, Scotland
Father: John BRYCE
Mother: Christian GOLD
Source: FHL Film 1042971 Dates: 1792 - 1855

Unfortunately I've struck out looking for a BC for Mary or Joseph in Carnwath on the BIVRI and you've already struck out with the IGI....

I wonder if you have the DC of Mary's mother Jean/Jane? Does that state anything about her marital status?? It surely appears as though she might have bore at least 2 children to Mr. Blair.......I wonder if they never married if there would be any Kirk Session record on this?

Sorry....this is tough one.....

Best wishes
Jean

gen10 · Post by **gen10** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 12:29 pm

Hello Jean, many thanks for the information on the Bryce births. Yes John and Christian were the parents of Jean Bryce. On Mary's marriage certificate to Edward Crombie it gives her mother as Jean Bryce, no maiden name is given. From this I presume that she was never married at that particular time. I have the DC for Mary and her mother is also given as Jean Bryce again no maiden name, again it looks like Jean never married. The DC also gives her father as James Blair, deceased?. From this I take it that they had very little or nothing to do with James and hadn't a clue as to whether he was alive or not, from Mary's age I take it he was dead at the time of Mary's death. I have also checked for a DC for Jean and come up with nothing. I am now in the process of trying to find Jean in the 1861 census on Scotlands People, up to now no success. I think I will now look for a marriage certificate for Mary's brother. Once again , thankyou. Lex

gen10 · Post by **gen10** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:59 am

Have found Mary Blair on the 1861 census for Carnwath. How do I attach the census result as there is a query on it I hope someone will help me with?
GEN10[/img]

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:35 pm

Hi Lex

I'm not sure I'm the one to give the instructions

but here goes....
click on Gallery button at top of page
click on Upload at top of gallery page
enter 1 for number of file boxes you need (assuming you have just the one record to upload!)
keep clicking next or whatever at the bottom of each page to follow along
You'll need to find the file in your own computer and enter the location of it for the upload to go through properly
Once it's in the gallery it's up to us to follow through with an approval process and then we'll find your post and insert the link to the image for you.

It's really not hard....it's just that I give lousy directions

Please come back and yell if it's not working out for you and I'll try again

Best wishes
Jean

gen10 · Post by **gen10** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 1:22 pm

Hya Jean, thanks for the instructions. They worked.

http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... p?pos=-266

My query from this census return is the box next to Mary's name. It states sister....? Can anyone tell me what the other word is? There is a James Lucan/Lucen as head of the family. Jean/Jane Bryce is given as mother. I wonder if this means she had another son to another man? Boy what a complicated family.
Gen10

Post by **AndrewP** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 1:57 pm

I think it says "sister to James", and the one below with the "Do.", then becomes "Brother to James" (as in not sister and brother to the mother, I presume). And "Do." again for John.

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:39 pm

Hi gen10 & Andrew
I had a look at it and just can't make it out - but it does look to me like it ends "ine" or "terine" ....almost like "SisterUterine" which seems bizarre and I can't help with what it means. I begin to think of Uterus and was this a used phrase????. - the mind boggles ...well, mine does...

Best wishes
Lesley

Ok -this is what I found:
"uterine siblings – brothers and sisters who have the same mother as the deceased but a different father"
http://www.wluml.org/english/pubsfulltx ... =i-87-2739

"SPITTAL, JOHN: merchant & sometime Provost of Inv; Disp and Settlement in favour of Jane & Ann Elder, sisters uterine of dec George ELder and Jean McNab, residenters in Inv; 12 Nov 1870 [B34/8/1 folio 267-68]"
http://www.fifefhs.org/Records/Deeds/inverkeithing.htm

so looks like it was used - my guess would be they are half-siblings as stated above - same mother but a different father to James, the head of the household.

later: (for your edification only!

) there also seems to be:
"Brother or sister 'consanguine' which means a half brother or sister, i.e. from the same blood" http://fp.ayrshireroots.plus.com/Geneal ... ecords.htm
- I suspect in some contexts this refers to same father but different mother if
http://www.wluml.org/english/pubsfulltx ... =i-87-2739
is anything to go by.

'mazing what you learn doin' this!