John Marshall.....

[Morag]

Hi - I need some help here .

I have John Marshall born abt 1825 in Greenock . He married Euphemia Brown in Gorbals in 1847, and was a ropemaker.On his death certificate in 1917 (age 92), his son named his parents as John Marshall (sawyer ) & Margaret Ferry.There is absolutely nothing on this pair in IGI .

In 1841 census for the Gorbals , I have found John Marshall age 16 ropemaker, living with a William Marshall (sawyer) and Agnes Marshall.

A check on IGI gives a William Marshall married to Agnes Fairrie (also spelt Ferrie, Farrie) in Greenock who had a son John at the right time.
By looking at the names of John & Euphemia's children , William fits in , but they have neither a Margaret or Agnes , although there is a gap where they would be !

Both William Marshall & Agnes Fairrie apper to have died before 1855.

My question is - is this a reasonable assumption that these are my family, William & Agnes having died before their grandson was born , he very probably didn't know their names.

I would be grateful for some opinions on this
Thank you

Morag

[MaryE]

Hi Morag

On the mother's side, although I'm not aware of any possible change of name between Margaret and Agnes, unlike say Jane/Jean/Janet, I can see that many years later a grandson might confuse 'Maggie' and 'Aggie'.

Mary

[Morag]

Thanks for your reply - I tend to agree - but to get both names wrong ?
I think I will now try and find deaths of the potential brothers and sisters to see if by any luck my John Marshall registered them - fingers crossed !

Morag

[Jack]

Hi Morag,
Here's the family in 1851 - doesn't seem much doubt the parents are William & Agnes.
I've asked many folk if they could name their 4 G-parents - a surprising amount couldn't, or weren't really sure.
So a gr-son could easily get it wrong - especially if he never actually knew them.
(at least he nearly got them right - much better than some gr-children!)
--
1851 cens 622 (578) Ed 7 p 19 (Barony - Anderston)
14 Clyde Street.
William MARSHALL, head, marr, 53, foreman sawyer, b Greenock, RFW
Agnes MARSHALL, wife, marr, 52, -------------------b Greenock, RFW
Agnes McKAY, daur, Marr, 29, --------------------b Greenock, RFW
Andrew MARSHALL, son, 17, rope maker, b Glasgow, LKS
Elizabeth MARSHALL, daur, 13, scholar, b Glasgow, LKS
Jane MARSHALL, daur, 10, scholar, b Glasgow, LKS
Archibald McKAY, gr-son, 6, scholar, b Greenock, RFW
Agnes McKAY, gr-daur, 3, scholar [sic], b Greenock, RFW
--
Jack
edited to correct ref no.

[Morag]

Hi Jack

Thank you for these details - I think I can safely claim them !
In the 1861 census , there is a McKay living with John & Euphemia, so this may be a relative of his sister Agnes.

I don't suppose that there is a John Marshall age 36 , with wife Euphemia age 36, and daughter Christina age 1 in the 1851 census you had ?
He married in Gorbals in 1847 , and first daughter Christina was born in Glasgow ( don't know where ) in 1850, 2nd child also born Glasgow in 1852.
By 1856 the family were in Dumbarton.

I think it is very inconsiderate that both his parents died at relatively young ages in their 50's between 1851 & 1855 !!

Thanks again for your help

Morag

[Thrall]

I think it is very inconsiderate that both his parents died at relatively young ages in their 50's between 1851 & 1855 !!

Hi Morag, I think that this is sentiment that many might have echoed in the nineteenth century, and also not the least, by those frequenting this forum. My own gr.grandfather´s parents both died before they reached their mid thirties, and worse, before 1855.

Good hunting,

Thrall

[Jack]

Hi Morag,
Yes, the family are in Glasgow - will get full details at one point.
--
1851 cens 622 (580) Ed 20 p 27 (Anderston)
John MARSHALL, 27
Euphemia, 23
Christina, abt 1
--
Jack
ps, like very many of us, i too have a fair number of rather "inconsiderate" rellies....
Also quite a few who never thought it important to leave a forwarding address....

[StewL]

Morag

To echo what Jack said. I am a fairly new family history slave. Up until recently I didnt know my grandparents names, except my grandfathers, only because my father had same name as his father, and my maternal grandfather I knew because when I was sent to pub to tell him his tea was ready, when I chapped the door I would hear the man who opened it say "Alec, yer grandsons here yer teas ready"
So it is not impossible that they didnt know their grandparents names except as grannie and grandpa
Initially I couldnt even find my maternal grannies details until I changed her name in search from Jane to Jeannie

[Thrall]

clipped
...........like very many of us, i too have a fair number of rather "inconsiderate" rellies....
Also quite a few who never thought it important to leave a forwarding address....

I hit on my first 1855 DC tonight. The detail.......all on one double spread: the parents, where born, how long in district, the kids with ages; a DC like that saves hours of blood and tears. Amazing.

Just what one needs after the PM fiasco.

Thrall

[Jack]

Hi Morag,
I know you already have the family in 1841 (just making a comment on wee Jean's age!),
and John & family in 1851.
--
1841 cens 644-2 Ed 44 p 10 (Gorbals - Laurieston)
Edwin Place.
William MARSHALL, 45, sawyer, b SCT
Agnes MARSHALL, 42, ------------b SCT
John MARSHALL, 16, ropemaker, b SCT
William MARSHALL, 10, -----------b LKS
Andrew MARSHALL, 7, -----------b LKS
Elizabeth MARSHALL, 4, --------b LKS
Jean MARSHALL, 7[sic], -------b LKS [i think this should've said 7mos]
--
1851 cens 622 (580) Ed 20 p 27 (Barony - Anderston)
3 North Clyde Street.
John MARSHALL, head, marr, 27, ropemaker, b Greenock, RFW
Euphemia MARSHALL, wife, marr, 23, do's wife, b Glasgow, LKS
Christina MARSHALL, daur, 1, ---------------------b Glasgow, LKS
--
Jack