Lost relation William Graham.....

carolwalden · Post by **carolwalden** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:24 pm

I hope someone can help me out here.

I have been trying without success to find my 3x great grandfather and his wife.

I have only a lmited amount of information but here goes.

Facts:
William Graham married Helen Boyd.
They had a daughter Rachel born 1854 Glasgow.

To get this far i had to order Rachels marriage certificate.

She was 18 in 1872 and married William Hall.
This showed William Hall as deceased and Helen nee Boyd.

I thought i may have found Helen using her maiden name in the 1861 census as this also recorded Rachel Graham age 7.
But doubt has been cast on this as Helen a 58 year old widow.
So, did William die between 1854 and 1861?

Not knowing where he or Helen was born has proven to be my downfall.

Can anyone help?

Carol

Post by **joette** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:20 pm

Hi Carol & a warm Welcome to Talking Scot.
I was going to suggest the IGI on www.familysearch.org for a Marriage /Birth but I see you are the submitter to Ancestral File & there is no other extract/submission.!
Where did you obtain Rachels Marriage Certificate?I presume Scotlands People & that you have checked for William's Death on it too?
It is not beyond the realms of possibility that a 51 year old could have had a child -my Granny's Aunt had twins at 51& one at 53 her only children.
Census ages are often inaccurate so if the place/names match, chances are its the right pair.Where is the birthplace on the 1861 Census for Helen/Rachel? The 1851 census is coming on-line "soon" so you would be able to see if you find Helen/William & maybe other children on it.
I would also try Freecen for the 1851 using the same location as the 1861 & also the County of Birth as per the 1861 one to confirm if the 1861 pair are "yours".
It has always been fairly common practise in Scotland for married women/widows to use their maiden names.
I have Grahams in my line from Auchterarder.It is not the easiest of names to track but good luck & come back if you need anymore help.

Post by **AndrewP** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:41 pm

Hi Carol,

Using the free search on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk to look for Helen's death, I got three results for HELEN BOYD or GRAHAM (none for first name Hellen or Ellen).

1866, aged 69, Falkirk, Stirlingshire
1870, aged 70, Calton, Glasgow
1874, aged 40, Humbie, East Lothian

If the information from William and Rachel's marriage certificate is good, then her mother was still alive by that time. Of the three deaths above, that leaves only the 1874 one, which at age 40 could be her, but only of you discount the information from the census.

If the census information was near to correct, then the 1870 death has its possibilities, but only if "deceased" was missing fom the 1872 marriage certificate. The 1866 death seems the least likely of the three.

Of course, like any multiple choice question, the answer could be "none of the above".

Your problem is that you would need to be able to have another piece of information to assure you that you had chosen the right death certificate - such as the address of the deceased (is it an address that you have found in other information for that part of the family); or is the informant of the death a family member whose name you can be sure is one of yours.

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:28 pm

carolwalden wrote:I hope someone can help me out here.

I have been trying without success to find my 3x great grandfather and his wife.

I have only a lmited amount of information but here goes.

Facts:
William Graham married Helen Boyd.
They had a daughter Rachel born 1854 Glasgow.

To get this far i had to order Rachels marriage certificate.

She was 18 in 1872 and married William Hall.
This showed William Hall as deceased and Helen nee Boyd.

I thought i may have found Helen using her maiden name in the 1861 census as this also recorded Rachel Graham age 7.
But doubt has been cast on this as Helen a 58 year old widow.
So, did William die between 1854 and 1861?

Not knowing where he or Helen was born has proven to be my downfall.

Can anyone help?

Carol

Hello Carol,

Are you positive it gives Rachel's mother's name as Helen Graham m.s.Boyd?

The reason I ask is there is an interesting birth in Falkirk, Stirling in 1851.

HELEN BOYD GRAHAM
Female

Event(s):
Birth: 05 FEB 1851 Falkirk, Stirling, Scotland

Parents:
Father: WILLIAM GRAHAM Family
Mother: HELEN GRAHAM

I've just seen Andrew's post and wonder the lady who died in 1866 is a granny to Helen junior.

Regards,
Annette M

carolwalden · Post by **carolwalden** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:35 pm

Wow ! Thanks for the swift replies.

I got Rachel and William`s marriage certificate from the Registry Office itself.

Wanted to be sure i was looking for the right people.

I did wonder if it was likely Helen would have had a child at 50/51 as i do have other relatives with large families having children until that age.

The birth places in the 1861 census are:
Helen - Ireland and Rachel - Glasgow.
Rachel and William married in High Church, Glasgow hence the reason i assumed the family stayed there.

I wasnt aware that married women sometimes kept their maiden names, i was begining to think that maybe this was one skeleton my grandfather was on about

Helen is shown as being alive on the marriage certificate, William as deceased.Which made me search the 1861 census on Scotspeople.
The only result was:

Parish - Calton

Schedule 68

Helen Boyd Head Widow 58 Woolweft? Winder Born Ireland
Sarah Graham Daughter Un 16 Cotton Factory Worker Born Ayrshire Maybole
Rachel Graham Daughter Un 7 Born Lanark Glasgow
Agnes Boyd Border Un 22 Cotton Weaver Born Wigtownshire Stranraer

I must admit i didnt try the death records, i ran out of credits

My grandfather is not much help i am afraid, he is worried i might find a few skeletons in the closet.
So i am trying to muddle through with what i have hoping to get somewhere.
I have made progress on every branch but this one.

Thanks so much for your help, it is gratley appreciated.If i get anywhere i will let you know.

Carol

Post by **joette** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:59 pm

Hi Carol I had a wee look at the 1874 Death & I doubt it is yours as it is her Husband John Graham reporting the event.
Good hunting & I can understand your Grandfather's reluctance but tell him some of the skeletons are good ones which make sense of things we have failed to understand before.

carolwalden · Post by **carolwalden** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 5:41 pm

Thanks for looking Joette, one more record to rule out.
With regards my grandfather, him i can understand not wanting to dig deeper as the Hall`s apparently were a roudy lot

But not my father, whenever i find something the pair of them say " oh yes we knew about that"

I find all this fascinating and wont give up if i can help it.Its been 5 years now and am still no further along, but every now and again i give it another shot.

One day they will all jump out at me like my husbands family

We have such a large family someone out there must be related

Carol

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:28 pm

Hello again Carol,

Obviously my last post has nothing to do with your family.

Here is Agnes Boyd aged 22 in 1861 living in Maybole in 1851. I would think there has to be some kind of relationship. Could Robert be Helen's brother?

Piece: SCT1851/605 Place: Maybole-Ayrshire Enumeration District: 13
Civil Parish: Maybole Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Maybole
Folio: 0 Page: 31 Schedule: 109
Address: Town Of Maybole

Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
BOYD Robert Head M M 40 Hand Loom Weaver Cotton Ireland - -
BOYD Jane Wife M F 40 - Ireland - -
BOYD Helen Dau U F 19 Hand Loom Weaver Cotton Wigtownshire - Stranraer
BOYD Sarah Dau U F 17 Hand Loom Weaver Cotton Wigtownshire - Stranraer
BOYD Agness Dau - F 13 Hand Loom Weaver Cotton Wigtownshire - Stranraer
BOYD John Son - M 10 Hand Loom Weaver Cotton App Ayrshire - Maybole
BOYD Jannet Dau - F 7 Scholar Ayrshire - Maybole
BOYD Rachel Dau - F 4 Scholar Ayrshire - Maybole
BOYD Margaret Dau - F 1 - Ayrshire - Maybole
SMITH Jannet Ma-Law W F 73 - Wigtownshire - Kirkcolm
FULTON Alexander Lodger U M 19 Hand Loom Weaver Cotton Ayrshire - Maybole
GOLDIE Samuel Grnson - M 1m - Ayrshire - Maybole

Kind regards,
Annette M

carolwalden · Post by **carolwalden** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 10:04 pm

Hi Annette, thanks for that.
Robert is certainly about the right age to Helens brother, will look into it.

Just need to find some parents and hopefully make a connection.

Regards
Carol

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:34 am

Hello again Carol,

There is no Sarah in this household but I thought I'd post this family anyway just in case. From FREECEN>

Piece: SCT1851/605 Place: Maybole-Ayrshire Enumeration District: 15
Civil Parish: Maybole Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Maybole
Folio: 0 Page: 41 Schedule: 153
Address: Primrose Square

Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
GRAHAM William Head M M 40 Handlm Weavr Cottn Emp 2jrnymn Ireland - -
GRAHAM Helen Wife M F 40 Handloom Weaver Cotton Ireland - -
GRAHAM Samuel Son - M 15 Handloom Weaver Cotton Lanarkshire - Glasgow
GRAHAM Mary Dau - F 5 - Ayrshire - Maybole
GRAHAM Robert Son - M 1 - Ayrshire - Maybole
BRYDONE John Lodger M M 35 Handloom Weaver Jrnymn Wigtownshire - Inch
BRYDONE Martha Lodger M F 42 Needlewoman Ornamenting Cotton Ireland - -
BRYDONE John Lodger - M 10 - Wigtownshire - Stranraer
BRYDONE Robert Lodger - M 8 Scholar Ayrshire - Maybole
MILTON Andrew Lodger M M 25 Handloom Weaver Jrnymn Lanarkshire - Biggar
MILTON Jean Lodger M F 23 Bobbin Winder Cotton

Annette M

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Lost relation William Graham.....

Lost relation William Graham.....

Re: Lost relation William Graham

Agnes Boyle

1851 census