Moses Joel.....

Post by **Tracey** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:29 pm

Rumour had it that there was a Rabbi in the family at some point. Today i looked on the 1841 census for Hannah Joel, there was only one, right area, and it stated her father was Moses Joel, Servant Of Hebrew Congn born Overseas - Foreign. I then Googled Moses Joel and found photo's of his sons grave in Newington Cemetery, Edinburgh
In
Affectionate Remembrance
Of My Beloved Husband
Henry Joel
Son of The Late Rev. Moses Joel
Who Departed This Life
5th December 5669 - 1908 Aged 79 Years
Deeply Mourned By
His Sorrowing Wife Sarah

Knowing very little about the Jewish faith, if Moses was a Rabbi would he have been called Reverend ?
I know the more recent past didnt follow the Jewish faith and have only vaguely delved into this side so far. Are/ were Jewish births recorded in the same way given that some went by Hebrew years or would their also be a Jewish equivelant of the Scottish birth certificate ?

Any response welcome

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:56 pm

Hi Tracey

I have no experience whatsoever of the honorifics applied to Jewish Rabbis, but it certainly appears as if someone in this case considered that "Reverend" was appropriate.

As regards your comment ....

Are/ were Jewish births recorded in the same way given that some went by Hebrew years or would their also be a Jewish equivelant of the Scottish birth certificate ?

.... it would be great to have a comment from someone knowledgeable in such matters .........

David

Post by **AndrewP** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:02 pm

Hi Tracey,

The following webpage/site may be of interest. There is a contact us link there.

http://www.ehcong.com/JewishHistory.htm

and a picture of the Newington Cemetery headstone, with transcription.

http://www.newingtoncmy.fsnet.co.uk/joel.htm

All the best,

Andrew Paterson
JJ

Post by **Ina** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:03 pm

Hi Tracey,

I just spoke with a Jewish friend of mine here in California, who was born and raised in Glasgow. She says that a Jewish Rabbi would be referred to as "Reverend".

Her birth record was recorded no different than any other Scottish birth record.

She said there is a place in London called "Beth Din" where records of Rabbi's are kept. Perhaps you could try to locate them.

Ina
Current AG chair

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:39 pm

Ina wrote:Hi Tracey,

I just spoke with a Jewish friend of mine here in California, who was born and raised in Glasgow. She says that a Jewish Rabbi would be referred to as "Reverend".

....snipped..................

Ina
Current AG chair

Absolutely fascinating !! I never knew that, - having always imagined that "Reverend" was not a term used in the Jewish faith to refer to a Rabbi.

Is that peculiarly Scottish, or worldwide usage ?

That's my "new fact for today" learnt

David

Post by **Tracey** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:40 pm

Hi All and thank you !

Andrew
The second link you sent is where i found the above inscription and i think the man has done a great job with his photographs of Jewish Cemeteries.

Ina
"Beth Din" i have found means Court of the Chief Rabbi and is in North London

The Beth Din also holds adoption records, conversion records and certificates of evidence (proof of Jewish birth). These often contain additional information and are particularly useful in tracing Jews who were not naturalised, and for information about a marriage abroad that may not exist elsewhere

Proof of Jewish birth - Which is what i suppose i was trying to ask originally ! Im not quite sure if this Chief Rabbi is for the whole of the UK but will look at the Edinburgh link Andrew sent.

Lots of info on www.movinghere.org.uk mainly pertaining to England but does have good explanations.

I must correct my original post - It doesnt "state" her father was Moses he is just at the top of the name list and assuming he was till i can get to see an 1851 census

Thank you

Now im wondering if a Reverend or Rabbi would wear a white collar ? may explain an old photo i have............................

Post by **Tracey** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:45 pm

DavidWW wrote:
Ina wrote:Hi Tracey,

I just spoke with a Jewish friend of mine here in California, who was born and raised in Glasgow. She says that a Jewish Rabbi would be referred to as "Reverend".

....snipped..................

Ina
Current AG chair
Absolutely fascinating !! I never knew that, - having always imagined that "Reverend" was not a term used in the Jewish faith to refer to a Rabbi.

Is that peculiarly Scottish, or worldwide usage ?

That's my "new fact for today" learnt

David

Me either. When ever a Rabbi is on TV or interviewed in the newspapers i have always seen or heard them refered to as Rabbi so and so

Post by **Tracey** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:52 pm

It's right a Rabbi is called Reverend, not that i doubted it, but i just had double confirmation from a client and they dont wear white a white collar either

.....so who's in my photo................

k

Post by **Ina** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:55 pm

The neighbourhood I live is 60% Jewish and I have never heard of a US Rabbi referred to as Reverend. However, according to my friend from Glasgow, it was/is used elsewhere.

Ina

Post by **joette** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:30 pm

Yes in UK Rabbis are sometimes refered to as Reverends.I have seen them called Reverend so& so Rabbi of the such & such congregation.
I think it is a mark of respect that we hold their office on a par with a Christian Minister.