79th Highlanders.....

[chrisy]

Hi,

My g.grandfather was in the 79th Highlanders and I can't find any info about him.

William John Manning

He was married in 1877 to a Jessie Grace (can't find her birth either)

Any advice?

[LesleyB]

Hi Chrisy
Do you have a copy of the marriage entry between William John Manning and Jessie Grace - it should mention her age and her parents which would help you find her birth. Jessies are often really Janets in disguise!

Best wishes
Lesley

[DavidWW]

Hi Chrisy

Since they were respectively 23 and 24 at marriage you just miss out on statutory civil birth records. IGI shows nothing, so their births may not have been registered with the church and appear in parish records.

But all is not lost!

Jessie was born in Cupar. How do I know this? Simply by looking for the death register entry of her mother. I can't see the family in the census 1871 but in 1861 they are easy to find, including a 10 year old Jeƒsie ...

No similar trace that I can find for William John MANNING (shown as just John on his marriage register entry) but then there's more than a good chance that if he became an army pensioner that TNA at Kew will have a record on him, including place of birth.

David

[JustJean]

Hi Crisy

Lesley is right in that your first clues should come from the MC. You can easily locate the DC of Jessie's mom the year before in Cupar. It doesn't appear that Jessie's BC is online so she must have been born just prior to statutory registration according to her stated age being 24 in 1877. Based on her mom's stated age of 67 at death perhaps it would be worthwhile to search in the 1851 census returns for her parents. As for your GrGrandad....there doesn't seem to be many Mannings at all in Scotland. Is there a chance he was born in Ireland or England? Do you have him on any later census stating a place of birth?

Best wishes
Jean

[chrisy]

Hi Chrisy
Do you have a copy of the marriage entry between William John Manning and Jessie Grace - it should mention her age and her parents which would help you find her birth. Jessies are often really Janets in disguise!

Best wishes
Lesley

I have got a typed info sheet of the marriage (mum did some research previously - that's the only reason I've managed to get back this far!!). But there's still loads of gaps. I know that William/John Manning and Jessie (or maybe Janet - thanks) were married in 1877 in Edinburgh. Jessie died in 1897 in Edinburgh - but I can't find any trace of a birth for her or John/William. Johns father was called John Manning and his mother was called Mary Cann. Jessie's father was called James Grace d. 1864 in Cupar and her mother was Isabella Lonie or Lenie d. 1876 in Cupar. Isabella's father was Thomas Lonie/Lenie and her mother was Janet Anderson.

But now I've come to a full stop and can't seem to find any more info. I've searched all the records I can think of but nothing else seems to be registered.

Thanks for your advice and quick reply!!

Chris

[chrisy]

Hi Chrisy

Since they were respectively 23 and 24 at marriage you just miss out on statutory civil birth records. IGI shows nothing, so their births may not have been registered with the church and appear in parish records.

But all is not lost!

Jessie was born in Cupar. How do I know this? Simply by looking for the death register entry of her mother. I can't see the family in the census 1871 but in 1861 they are easy to find, including a 10 year old Jeƒsie ...

No similar trace that I can find for William John MANNING (shown as just John on his marriage register entry) but then there's more than a good chance that if he became an army pensioner that TNA at Kew will have a record on him, including place of birth.

David

Hi David,

Thanks for your help in this. I've got some records on them (mum did some research a while ago - that's what I've based mine on!!) She has written to the Cupar cemetery regarding the Grace family and they were unable to shed any light. They suggested contacting Register House, Edinburgh - so I'm going to do this. I'll try the TNA at Kew as well - thanks.

I've got a typed info sheet of the 1861 census with the family details on it but can't seem to get any further - can't find any more records. I know that William/John 's parents were John Manning and Mary Cann. Jessie's parents were James Grace d. 1864 in Cupar and Isabella Lonie or Lenie d. 1876 in Cupar. Isabella's parents were Thomas Lonie/Lenie and Janet Anderson.

William/John and Jessie married in 1877 in Edinburgh.

Now I'm at a dead end.

Thanks for your help - any more suggestions would be much appreciated.

Chris

[chrisy]

Hi Crisy

Lesley is right in that your first clues should come from the MC. You can easily locate the DC of Jessie's mom the year before in Cupar. It doesn't appear that Jessie's BC is online so she must have been born just prior to statutory registration according to her stated age being 24 in 1877. Based on her mom's stated age of 67 at death perhaps it would be worthwhile to search in the 1851 census returns for her parents. As for your GrGrandad....there doesn't seem to be many Mannings at all in Scotland. Is there a chance he was born in Ireland or England? Do you have him on any later census stating a place of birth?

Best wishes
Jean

Hi Jean,

Thanks for your help and your quick reply!.

I've got a typed info sheet of the 1861 census showing them in Cupar. (mum did some research a while ago and that's what I'm basing mine on!)

I've got some information from certificates and know that they got married in 1877 in Edinburgh and Jessie died in 1897 in Edinburgh. William/John's parents were John Manning and Mary Cann and Jessie's parents were James Grace d. 1864 in Cupar and Isabella Lonie or Lenie d. 1876 in Cupar - but don't have any more info on them. Isabella's parents were Thomas Lonie/Lenie and Janet Anderson.

But that's as far as I've been able to trace till now. Mum wrote to Cupar Cemetry but they couldn't shed any light - they suggested she write to Register House in Edinburgh - so I'll do that. I'll also try the 1851 census - thanks! and the TNA at Kew (advice from David).

Any more suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks again.

Chris

[LesleyB]

Hi Crisy

I've got some information from certificates and know that they got married in 1877 in Edinburgh and Jessie died in 1897 in Edinburgh. William/John's parents were John Manning and Mary Cann and Jessie's parents were James Grace d. 1864 in Cupar and Isabella Lonie or Lenie d. 1876 in Cupar - but don't have any more info on them.

A visit to Scotlands People www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk (Register House, Edinburgh online) to download the original entries would be worth doing. As you have the dates and locations it should be fairly easy to locate them.

Best wishes
Lesley

[chrisy]

Hi Crisy

I've got some information from certificates and know that they got married in 1877 in Edinburgh and Jessie died in 1897 in Edinburgh. William/John's parents were John Manning and Mary Cann and Jessie's parents were James Grace d. 1864 in Cupar and Isabella Lonie or Lenie d. 1876 in Cupar - but don't have any more info on them.

A visit to Scotlands People www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk (Register House, Edinburgh online) to download the original entries would be worth doing. As you have the dates and locations it should be fairly easy to locate them.

Best wishes
Lesley

Hi Lesley,

I've tried Scotlands People and not got anything ... But I'll keep trying.

Thanks

Chris

[LesleyB]

Hi Chrisy
The marriage is there:
1877 MANNING JOHN GRACE JESSIE CANONGATE EDINBURGH CITY/MIDLOTHIAN

Isabella's death is there:
1876 GRACE ISABELLA LONIE LONIE F 67 CUPAR /FIFE
as is James's
1864 GRACE JAMES M U CUPAR /FIFE

and Jessie's death:
1897 MANNING JESSIE GRACE F 47 ST GEORGE EDINBURGH CITY/MIDLOTHIAN

They are all just waiting for you there at Scotlands People - all of the above were the dates you already knew. Any problems finding them, just let us know!

Best wishes
Lesley