Agnes McCulloch has me stumped...

[James Clark]

Many hours and credits later I thought I'd ask for some help.

I have an ancestor named David McCulloch who married Helen Tosh on June 8, 1888. According their marriage records and the 1891 census David was born in 1857/58 in Lanarkshire, Glasgow. I can't find any birth records for a David McCulloch in those years. The closest I can find is 1855 with parents (David McCulloch/Agnes Craig) that match one of my findings listed below.

On David's marriage registration his parents are listed as Thomas McCulloch (occupation Joiner) and Agnes McKinnon formerly McCulloch MS Craig.

However, the only death info I can find that matches Agnes indicates that she was originally married to a David McCulloch (occupation Joiner) and then Peter McKinnon. If this is her death then she died Jan 3, 1898 and was born in 1839/1840.

The only match for a Peter McKinnon married to anyone named Agnes between 1855-1897 is for Peter McKinnon/Agnes Craig (widow) on Dec 31, 1867. However, the age for Agnes would make her born in 1833/1834.

Agnes' fathers name is the same (William on both her death and possible second marriage records) and her mothers MS is similar on both her death and second marriage records (Hullison vs. Helbston?) although I find it tricky to read.

Each record seems close to a match, but there's always one thing that is a bit off.

Any suggestions from the pro's???

[LesleyB]

Hi James
..and welcome to Talking Scot

On David's marriage registration his parents are listed as Thomas McCulloch (occupation Joiner) and Agnes McKinnon formerly McCulloch MS Craig.

Those words in that order would usually suggest to me that at the time of David's marrige his mother Agnes was Mrs McKinnon, and had been widowed - I'd be thinking that Thomas McCulloch was deceased by the time of the marriage (he must have died a wee while before for her to be remarried by then!) Agnes's maiden name was Craig.

Don't know if this helps or just muddies the water more! From what you've said, it looks a bit like the Thomas on the marriage entry may be a mistake - mis-stated, misheard or mistranscribed. Could that be a possibility?

Best wishes
Lesley

[James Clark]

Thanks for the welcome!

No muddying in your answer. That's how I read it too, except that elsewhere Thomas is listed as David.

Based on the address with her second marriage she took up with the next door neighbour!

[LesleyB]

Hi James
Is that the only time your man is referred to as Thomas - or is he one of those guys who is one thing one year, and another name the next, then back to the first name? We've had a few of those on here!! Sometimes its been due to a first name they didn't use much for instance, a man's name at the time of his being christened or registered may have been John William McDonald, but he was always known as William, and that is the name which would then tend to turn up some official documents, if you follow. So you can spend ages, and a small fortune, looking for a John McDonald, when he never used that name 'cos he was known as William (and anyone who is looking for a John McDonald probably needs all the help they can get!!)

Have you found his death? What was David/Thomas (the joiner) McCulloch's father called? Is that where the mix up has occurred maybe?

Best wishes
Lesley

[Jack]

Hi James,
Not sure if you have these, and they don't solve wee David's birth as such!
But he is as 5yrs in 1861 if this is him, making the 1855 birth sound very reasonable.
==
1861 cens 644-5 Ed 63 p 14 (Clyde)
Agnes McCULLOCH 30, b Eyemouth, BEW
David McCULLOCH 5, b Glasgow, LKS
--
1861 cens 644-8 Ed 44 p 5 (Anderston)
George McKINNON 29, b Campbeltown, ARL
Peter McKINNON 23, b Campbeltown, ARL
Catherine L McKINNON 21, b Campbeltown, ARL
Scipia?(male) McKINNON 18, b Campbeltown, ARL
--
1881 Census Place: Barony, Lanark, Scotland
Dwelling: 8 Cheapside St
Source: FHL Film 0203665 GRO Ref Volume 644-10 EnumDist 12 Page 14
Peter MC KINNON M 44 M Campbeltown, Argyll, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Carpenter
Agnes MC KINNON M 48 F Eyemouth, Berwick, Scotland Rel: Wife
Neil MC KINNON U 13 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Message Boy
==
Jack

[JustJean]

Sorry to say it looks like the father was David. This fills in the missing chunk nicely...(wee David was only a few weeks old... )

1855 MCCULLOCH DAVID MILLER M 29 CLYDE GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/05 0989

Best wishes
Jean

[James Clark]

Thanks Jack and Jean!

I must say it took me a while to realize that you had found the death certificate Jean. I was thinking Miller was an occupation not his mothers MS.

Jack, I couldn't find the 1861 census info for Agnes/young David although I found the other 2 straight away.

[Jack]

Hi James,
Odd that Agnes (30) & David (5) McCULLOCH aren't in the 1861 census on SP.
Unless they've been indexed under a slightly different spelling? Or even ages.
The index i looked at has only ONE David McCulloch aged 5 in all Glasgow.
Maybe try using *wildcards*
David M*CULLOC? age 5yrs +/- 2yrs. There should only be the one.
--
(there is a David McCulloch (2) in Bridgeton, but he's with parents Andrew & Ellen)
(and an Agnes McCulloch (30) in Calton, but possibly with her mother of the same name - both born Girvan)
--
But if Agnes & David still can't be found i'll have a look at the film next time i'm at The Mitchell Library.
Jack

[JustJean]

Hi folks

He's there on SP as.....

1861 MCCULLOCK DAVID M 5 CLYDE GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/05 063/05 014

Best wishes
Jean

[James Clark]

Thanks once again.