John Brown or Black - or both?.....

[JackyHSF]

Hi

I’d be very grateful for some advice on a bit of a puzzle – I don’t think I’ve assumed anything in this trail, but I’d like to be sure, so I’d be very grateful for any comments/suggestions.

On 22nd June 1860, John BLACK married Marion KIDD in Biggar, Lanark. At the time of their marriage John gave his age as 27, his parents as Robert Black and Agnes Purdie and his occupation as General Labourer.

Unfortunately, I couldn’t find any pairings of Robert Black and Agnes Purdie, just Robert BROWN and Agnes PURDIE. So – brick wall.

Using census information I’ve found six children for John and Marion, including John Purdie Black (my GG Grandfather). Tracking down their birth records has taken some time, John became a Ploughman and the family moved around, but I think I’ve finally come up with all of them, including two who were registered under the name of BROWN:

Robert Black b 19 4 1861 Biggar, Lanark
John Purdie Black b 29 4 1863 Kilbucho (& Broughton & Denholm), Peebleshire
Grizzel (known as Grace later) b 6 3 1865 Gormiston Mains, Liberton
John Brown b 5 5 1867 Durhamtoun, Bathgate (mothers MS given as Lawrie – actually Marion's mother’s MS)
Alexander Purdie Black b 31 10 1870 Wester Kinleith, Currie
Agnes Brown b 8 1 1873 Wester Kinleith, Currie

The date and place of the marriage for all six records are correct for John Black and Marion Kidd.

His youngest daughter, Agnes, registered John’s death in 1908 and gave his parents as John Black Ploughman and Marion Kidd – so that’s no help at all.

So that leads me back to John’s parents being Robert BROWN and Agnes PURDIE, who had five children:

Isabel bap 10 4 1825 Whitburn
Mary bap 8 4 1827 Whitburn
Catharine bap 16 6 1833 Carnwath
John bap 15 5 1831 Whitburn
Elizabeth bap 27 5 1838 Whitburn

Additionally, there’s a record from Marriage & Burial Money, Parish registers, Church of Scotland, Parish of Whitburn for Robert Brown and Agnes Purdie, dated 4 Jan 1823.

Unfortunately, I can’t then track down Agnes Purdie (1851 & 1861 census info gives her as having been born West Calder, Edinburgh/Midlothian c 1799). Having been in contact with a descendant of Catherine Brown, ‘there’s a family “legend” about Robert being a coachman and running away with Agnes who was the daughter of Lord and Lady Purdie. Supposedly he changed his name from Black to Brown or vice versa because she was disowned by her family. Supposedly she had two sisters who never married’. If there’s a kernel of truth in this, then I haven’t managed to find it yet - Robert definitely gave his name as Brown on census information.

Robert Brown was variously a Labourer, Labourer in a Coalpit, Scavenger, Handloom Weaver (Cotton) – census information and death registration in 1863 (widow Agnes was the informant). I haven’t been able to find a death registration for Agnes Purdie – it may be the one for Agnes Brown who died in the Union Poorhouse, Linlithgow aged 80 years in 1879 (her parents are shown as unknown, and although she’s given as being a widow no husband’s name is given – don’t know if it would be worth trying to get hold of the poorhouse records as surely if the information was known if would have been put down on the death registration?).

So, I think I’m right in my GGG Grandfather John BLACK starting out life as the son of Robert BROWN and Agnes PURDIE. Why then would he have changed his name from Brown to Black? He had done so by the time he was married in 1860 – haven’t managed to pin him down on the 1851 census unsurprisingly (not with his parents according to their census entry) nor do I have the family in 1841 I'm afraid, so don’t know if it was earlier. Then, why would he register two of his children under his “real” name? He registered one child as Black and another as Brown in the same parish.

Any ideas?

Jacky

[CatrionaL]

I haven’t been able to find a death registration for Agnes Purdie – it may be the one for Agnes Brown who died in the Union Poorhouse, Linlithgow aged 80 years in 1879 (her parents are shown as unknown, and although she’s given as being a widow no husband’s name is given – don’t know if it would be worth trying to get hold of the poorhouse records as surely if the information was known if would have been put down on the death registration?).

Jacky

Hi Jacky

Your post has waited a long time for a reply.
Do hope you've been able to find more information enabling you to sort out this part of your family tree.

If not, I did notice your question about the Poor House records. I don't know whether the ones for Linlithgow still exist and if they do, in what state, but it's been my experience that Poorhouse records can be full of valuable information.

Best wishes

Catriona

[Grace Carrick]

Hi Jacky,
Just read your story regarding Blacks/Brown and Purdies. I will need to go through some data I have here and get back to you. I know that there was a connection between the Somervilles of Carnwath and Purdies, also a connection to Blacks, but whether or not there is a link, I don't know. do you have data for Marion Kidd of Biggar. There were two Kidd families in Burnside Terrace, West Row Biggar at that time. Get back to you soon.

[JackyHSF]

Hi Catriona & Grace

Thanks for taking the trouble to reply. I'm still searching. I'm convinced that my GGG Grandfather John BLACK started out life as John BROWN, there are just too many bits and pieces of information that point that way.

Unfortunately, I can't find the family of Robert BROWN & Agnes PURDIE on the 1841 Census - they should be with children Isabella, John and Catharine at least (Mary and Elisabeth may have died young). They appear as follows on the 1851 Census:

Whitburn, ED 1 p4 Dykehead
Robert Brown, head, mar, 47, Handloom Weaver (Cotton), b Linlithgow, Whitburn
Agnes Brown, wife, mar, 52, Weavers Wife, b Midlothian, West Calder
Isabella Brown, Daur, U, 26, Handloom Weaver (Cotton), b Lanark, Carnwath*
Agnes Class**, Granddaughter, 11 mo, b Lanarkshire, Carnwath
Abegail Louner?, Serv, U, 13, House servant, b Agnshire, Gervan?
Janet Grey, Pauper, 4, Supported by Parochial Board, b Linlithgow, Whitburn

* Isabella was actually born in Whitburn, as were three siblings, but sister Catharine was born there - I don't know why the brief foray to Carnwath (work?) as they seem to have lived the rest of their lives in Whitburn.

** Have been unable to trace this child - possibly Isabella's illegitimate child?

I know that Catharine was also still alive in 1851 - she married 7 8 1853 in Whitburn - assume she was off working elsewhere. Trying to track down the right John BROWN or possibly BLACK, who was also probably off working, on the 1851 Census without his family has so far proved impossible.

I think the Poorhouse records for Linlithgow - if they've survived - are the next step in trying to 'pin down' Agnes PURDIE's history, although it does seem unlikely as a source for her parents. I've been in touch with someone who can trace back to PURDIEs in West Calder, but we haven't been able to establish and link to them for Agnes unfortunately.

As far as Marion KIDD goes, I do have a fair bit of information on her and her family. Marion herself is with her maternal grandmother Marrion LAURIE/LAWRIE MS AITKEN on the 1841 Census, a few doors along from the rest of her family. Unfortunately, they weren't big on having their children baptised - none of the seven shown on the census info. Again, unfortunately, Marion isn't with her family on the 1851 Census and I still haven't tracked down her whereabouts then.

It seems likely that Marion's father Thomas KIDD was the son of Thomas KIDD and Grizzel WILSON, which gives him several siblings, including brothers Alexander and Robert, who were in Biggar with their families for the 1851 Census.

The only link I can find with SOMERVILLE is the 1841 census entry for Robert BROWN's parents - Dougald BROWN and Mary MITCHELL, viz.

BROWN Dugald M 65 Cotton Hand Loom Weaver West Lothian
BROWN Mary F 65 Outside Census County (1841)
BROWN Agnes F 15 West Lothian
PATON Alice F 15 Female Servant West Lothian
CARMICHAEL William M 6m West Lothian
SOMMERVILLE Henry M 10 Outside Census County (1841)

Hope this helps to 'round out' the situation - I'll keep on looking for John and his family in 1841 and perhaps I'll find John working with or near Marion KIDD in 1851 - who knows?

Jacky

[Grace Carrick]

Hi Jacky,
Well, I had a look at some of the mountain of paper I have here but couldn't find a connection, but I was interested to hear you had a Kidd connection to Biggar. My Somerville line, does have a connection to Browns of Walston, but that was at a later date. If I do ever come across anything I will give you a buzz, hope you find out about the mystery.
Grace.