Alexander Muir or Milton or ?.....

[Caroline]

I'm doing my sister- in -laws family tree and was getting along great until I came to her great grandfather ALEXANDER MUIR.

I found his MC in 1884 when he married a MARGARET DUNN in Glasgow, however there seems to be a bit of confusion with his parents.

His father was WILLIAM MILTON (Bricklayer) and his mother MARY MUIR on the MC. There was also a bit added under Alexander MUIRs name stating that this was the name he had used from childhood, which suggested that he was perhaps illegitimate.

However I can find no trace of his birth(he would have been born in 1864)
or any sign of him or his family on the 1881 census.

Can anyone help as I feel I'm just going round in circles here!

Caroline

[Jack]

Hi Caroline,
Do you have Alexander in the 1891 & 1901 censuses to see where he was born?
Hopefully it will be correct...then look for his birth in that area.
Jack

[JustJean]

Hi Caroline

Ugh! I hate to even post this as I'm not certain....but possibly I've found a William Milton that fits the bill. He died in 1899 in Kelvin District (I think but didn't jot it down!!) anyway he died at the hospital age 73 is a night watchman and is listed as being a widower of Mary Muir. His usual residence is what looks like 75 Glenpark Street Glasgow. The informant is a Christina Muir and she is named as Daughter-in-law. Sadly no parent info is known about him. Hmmmmm...... So far I've still not found them in a earlier census. I'm wondering if Mary and William never married or had an irregular marriage that never was entered on the books. Perhaps Christina is not really a daugher in law but perhaps a step daughter....altho I've not found anything that fits that way either! There are a lot of Mary Muir deaths that need to be slogged through between the marriage date (1884) of Alexander and the death date (1899) of this William and I've not seen an easy approach yet. I tried a couple of them but they were not correct...all the others have other surnames but not Milton. Does any of this look likely????

Best wishes
Jean

[JustJean]

Hi again Caroline

After 5 hours I think I've found him! I've been down a lot of dead ends and still wish I had more proof but here goes.....

Alexander states on the census returns after his 1884 marriage that his place of birth was Kirkoswald. Problem being there was no MUIR or MILTON in Kirkoswald was there? There is a very interesting family though in 1861 that has a name that I couldn't read for certain but it started with a M. Oddly enough the mother has the last name of MUIR. Quite clearly written. Matter of fact that is how I found them in the first place....Mary MUIR age 30. You'll see that her hubbie is named William and there are more than a few kiddies and some even born in Ayrshire...but Mary and William and some kids are Irish born. Ok....so I hunted for them in 1871 to see if they had added an Alexander.....and I just can't find them!!! I did find the last name enumerated in 1861 as MUNTON though....and then found the wee twins born in Colmonell enumerated as MOUNTEN......but the best news of all??? They had an Alexander in 1864...

1864 MONTON ALEXANDER M KIRKOSWALD /AYR 601/00 0049

and the even better part?? His BC states quite clearly where the parents were married in Ireland!

I still can't find them in 1871 or 1881 or even find William in 1891 for certain....but I still do think the DC of William MILTON I found could be the right fellow. Just no death of Mary yet ......so fire up your credit card and load up on credits. You've got some shopping to do!!! .........and perhaps you'll be able to solve the mysterious Christina MUIR dau in law too....

.....as it's way past my bedtime!

Best wishes
Jean

[Caroline]

Hi Jean,

That's brilliant!

Can't thank you enough for spending all this time and energy on my query- the folk on this site are just amazing.

If I find any more info about the family, including locating the death of Mary Muir I will let you know.

Thanks once again and hopefully I can return the favour someday.

Caroline

[trish1]

Hi Caroline

Civil births until 1875 are on the IGI. I tried yesterday but couldn't find your man - Jean got me searching again.

He is on there (I think) as Alexander Mouton parents William Mouton and Mary Moore. I think I found at least one brother being Henry Monton, parents William Monton and Mary Moor, 1863, also possibly a sister Mary Mountain, parents William Mountain and Mary Moore, 1860. The batch is C116011 - there are probably more spellings that I have missed.

Trish

[Caroline]

Hi Trish,

Just been searching through the IGI myself and I found Alexanders birth and his brother Henry and sister Mary. Also looked at Colmonell births and found a brother Joseph and the twins Jean mentioned, Maria and Martha.

Found various spellings so far for the surname including MONTON, MOUNTAIN, MOUTEN, and MOUNTEN. Also Marys surname varies from MUIR to MOOR and MOORE. I get the feeling it's not go to be easy tracing this family!

Also searched the 1881 census and have come up with the following possibility.

Dwelling: 57 King Street
Census Place: Govan, Lanark, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203678 GRO Ref Volume 644-13 EnumDist 7 Page 1
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Mary MOORE M 48 F Ireland
Rel: Head
Occ: Field Worker
Martha SCOTT M 22 F Colmonell, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Dau
Occ: Housekeeper
Alexander SCOTT U 16 M Glenhead, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Engine Fireman


I'll need to investigate it further though, but afraid it's the nearest I can find at the moment.

Caroline

[JustJean]

Hi Caroline

Good to see you running with this! An excellent find too in 1881 and it really does look like a good prospect. The birth locations of the kids fit...the ages fit...and because Martha is enumerated as "M" it's quite possible Alexander was "do" with the wrong surname. In searching for a possible marriage of a Martha to a Scott brings up a very confusing possibilitiy.......and what's worse the search for a death of a Martha Scott brings up an even deader end (if that's possible )

In 1880 there was a marriage between a Robert SCOTT and a Martha MUIR in Kelvin Dist. This fits nicely with your scenario but the parents names are John MUIR blacksmith (dec'd) and Sarah MUIR mn MILTON!!! Which makes no sense at all ....unless she's naming her grandparents instead of her parents? SHe did sign with an "X" so anything is possible I spose. A search for a death for Martha brings up an even wilder possibility in that there is one in Cadder at Gartloch Asylum in 1903. This Martha MUIR MILLER or SCOTT died from Pthysis and no husband or parents names are known. The age fits perfectly though. So there....even more mud for your waters

Ok....in 1901 census Martha MUIR MILTON SCOTT is a patient at the asylum....but place of birth is Lanarkshire Glasgow

and in 1891 she is with husband Robert and two sons in Plantation.....but I still don't know if she's the right Martha or not.....

Best wishes
Jean

[JustJean]

But here's the mysterious Christina solved.......

1878 MUIR JOSEPH MCINTOSH CHRISTINA GORBALS GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/12 0180

and an odd assortment in 1881....

Dwelling: 652 Gallowgate St
Census Place: Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203633 GRO Ref Volume 644-2 EnumDist 8 Page 1
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Ann GILCHRIST W 31 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Laundress
Archibald GILCHRIST 10 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Joseph MUIR M 24 M Lindelfoot, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Bro In Law
Occ: Vanman
Christina MUIR M 23 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Sister
Henry MC INTOSH U 21 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Brother
Occ: Fishhook Maker
Georgina MC INTOSH U 18 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Sister
Occ: Confectioner
Thomas WHITE U 32 M Ireland
Rel: Boarder
Occ: Vanman
John DOBBIN U 27 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Boarder
Occ: Fish Hook Maker Unemployed

Note the Ann Gilchirst is not a MUIR....her mn is McINTOSH.....so Christina must be her true sister and Joseph MUIR is her brother in law as stated. Oddly enough Christina too has a brother Henry so he's not our Henry MUIR/MILTON...

Best wishes
Jean

[Caroline]

Hi Jean,

Thanks for your continued help with this puzzle!

I was thinking I would try and get Martha admission records for Gartloch to see if there's any info on them that would help.

As for the 1881 census entry I also found it when I was searching for Joseph, but I had wrongly assumed that Ann was his sister and I failed to see Christine, so thanks for clearing that up.

Will let you know how I get on - you might not hear anything for a while though!

Caroline