There are 4 quarter dates in Scotland and 4 quarter dates in England. (I can expand on this if necessary)
In the 1840's/1850,s did the landed gentry in Scotland adopt the English quarter dates for tenancy etc?
I have ancestors in West Lothian who lived on the Earl of Buchan's estate and the answer to this question may solve a puzzle.
Jean
Quarter Dates .....
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Jean Jeanie
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Liz Turner
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Hi there Jean
From my distant past working in a solicitor's office, we collected Feu Duty for Feu Superiors on the quarter dates at the end of May, August, November and Feb. Don't know if that helps you.
Liz
From my distant past working in a solicitor's office, we collected Feu Duty for Feu Superiors on the quarter dates at the end of May, August, November and Feb. Don't know if that helps you.
Liz
Fife: Nicolson, Cornfoot, Walker, Gibson, Balsillie, Galt, Elder
NE Scot: Nicolson, Lindsay, Haliburton, Ross
Edin & Central: Nicolson, Blaikie, Stevenson, Ross, Hotchkiss, Suttie, Christie, Clelland, Gray, Purvis, Lang, Dickson
Ross & Cromarty: Ross
NE Scot: Nicolson, Lindsay, Haliburton, Ross
Edin & Central: Nicolson, Blaikie, Stevenson, Ross, Hotchkiss, Suttie, Christie, Clelland, Gray, Purvis, Lang, Dickson
Ross & Cromarty: Ross
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AndrewP
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I have no idea why so recently, but these dates were stated in the "Term and Quarter Days (Scotland) Act 1990". (Google is useful, I don't pretend that I just happened to be familiar with the said Act.)
Candlemas - 28th February
Whitsunday - 28th May
Lammas - 28th August
Martinmas - 28th November
I believe these dates to have been the quarter days used in Scotland since Adam was a boy.
All the best,
AndrewP
Candlemas - 28th February
Whitsunday - 28th May
Lammas - 28th August
Martinmas - 28th November
I believe these dates to have been the quarter days used in Scotland since Adam was a boy.
All the best,
AndrewP
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Jean Jeanie
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Hi Liz
The quarter dates in Scotland were 2nd Feb - Candlemas. 15th May -Whitsun. 1st august - Lammas and 11th November - Martinmas.
The quarter dates in England were 25th March - Ladyday, 24th June - Midsummer. 29th September - Michaelmas, 25th December - Christmas.
My mystery concerns the birth of a child on 3rd Jun 1841 who was not enumerated in the 1841 census.
Jean
The quarter dates in Scotland were 2nd Feb - Candlemas. 15th May -Whitsun. 1st august - Lammas and 11th November - Martinmas.
The quarter dates in England were 25th March - Ladyday, 24th June - Midsummer. 29th September - Michaelmas, 25th December - Christmas.
My mystery concerns the birth of a child on 3rd Jun 1841 who was not enumerated in the 1841 census.
Jean
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Jean Jeanie
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AndrewP
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Perhaps the dates that I gave above from the 1990 Act are modern variations of the original dates.Jean Jeanie wrote:Hi Liz
The quarter dates in Scotland were 2nd Feb - Candlemas. 15th May -Whitsun. 1st august - Lammas and 11th November - Martinmas.
The quarter dates in England were 25th March - Ladyday, 24th June - Midsummer. 29th September - Michaelmas, 25th December - Christmas.
My mystery concerns the birth of a child on 3rd Jun 1841 who was not enumerated in the 1841 census.
Jean
All the best,
AndrewP
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Liz Turner
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Hi Jean and Andrew
I'd have sworn the dates we used were at the end of the months because I vividly recollect having to collate all the wee £2, £1.50 etc payments received in cheques and in cash from the householders, and crediting the money to the Feu Superior's accounts.
Ah well old age must be catching up with me ...
Have just checked via Google about this and found that since Feuduty was redeemable only on two dates - 28th May and 20th November (two of the dates upon which it was payable, then it seems the end of the month dates are most likely). See http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/busin ... p00-09.pdf page 10
Feu duty was itself abolished in the 1974 Land Tenure (Scotland) Act - at least so far as no new ones could be created. Feu duty ceased to be payable, with conditions, from 28th November 2004.
No doubt there are legal types lurking around on TS and they will keep us right with the details .....
Liz
I'd have sworn the dates we used were at the end of the months because I vividly recollect having to collate all the wee £2, £1.50 etc payments received in cheques and in cash from the householders, and crediting the money to the Feu Superior's accounts.
Ah well old age must be catching up with me ...
Have just checked via Google about this and found that since Feuduty was redeemable only on two dates - 28th May and 20th November (two of the dates upon which it was payable, then it seems the end of the month dates are most likely). See http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/busin ... p00-09.pdf page 10
Feu duty was itself abolished in the 1974 Land Tenure (Scotland) Act - at least so far as no new ones could be created. Feu duty ceased to be payable, with conditions, from 28th November 2004.
No doubt there are legal types lurking around on TS and they will keep us right with the details .....
Liz
Fife: Nicolson, Cornfoot, Walker, Gibson, Balsillie, Galt, Elder
NE Scot: Nicolson, Lindsay, Haliburton, Ross
Edin & Central: Nicolson, Blaikie, Stevenson, Ross, Hotchkiss, Suttie, Christie, Clelland, Gray, Purvis, Lang, Dickson
Ross & Cromarty: Ross
NE Scot: Nicolson, Lindsay, Haliburton, Ross
Edin & Central: Nicolson, Blaikie, Stevenson, Ross, Hotchkiss, Suttie, Christie, Clelland, Gray, Purvis, Lang, Dickson
Ross & Cromarty: Ross
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DavidWW
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There weren't "quarter days" in Scotland, but term days.
The dates differ according to whether you are in the era of the Julian or Gregorian calendars
; before or after 1886; or in the country or town.
See http://talkingscot.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 7952#37952 , newly added.
Meanwhile .............
As in England the the legal year in Scotland was divided into 4 parts leading to the Scottish equivalent of the English quarter days, - “term days”.
Term days were when rent and interest on loans were due, when ministers’ stipends were due for payment, when servants in town and country were hired and paid, and when contracts and leases often began or ended.
The term days in Scotland were and are Candlemas, Whitsun, Lammas, and Martinmas.
Candlemas, on 2nd February, was originally the date of the feast of the Purification of the Virgin Mary. In pre-Reformation times this was celebrated by candlelit processions.
Whitsun was originally the feast of Pentecost, around which a great many christenings seemed to occur and therefore became associated with the colour white. In Scotland the legal term day was fixed as 26th May Old Style, and then 15th May New Style irrespective of the day of the week that Whitsun fell on.
Lammas was traditionally a harvest festival on 1st August, at which the first fruits of the harvest were offered. The name derives from the Anglo-Saxon for “loaf-mass” or “bread-feast”.
Martinmas was on 11th November. It was originally the feast of Saint Martin of Tours, a 4th century bishop and hermit.
In 1886 the term dates for the removal and hiring of servants in towns were changed to 28th May and 28th November.
David
The dates differ according to whether you are in the era of the Julian or Gregorian calendars
; before or after 1886; or in the country or town.See http://talkingscot.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 7952#37952 , newly added.
Meanwhile .............
As in England the the legal year in Scotland was divided into 4 parts leading to the Scottish equivalent of the English quarter days, - “term days”.
Term days were when rent and interest on loans were due, when ministers’ stipends were due for payment, when servants in town and country were hired and paid, and when contracts and leases often began or ended.
The term days in Scotland were and are Candlemas, Whitsun, Lammas, and Martinmas.
Candlemas, on 2nd February, was originally the date of the feast of the Purification of the Virgin Mary. In pre-Reformation times this was celebrated by candlelit processions.
Whitsun was originally the feast of Pentecost, around which a great many christenings seemed to occur and therefore became associated with the colour white. In Scotland the legal term day was fixed as 26th May Old Style, and then 15th May New Style irrespective of the day of the week that Whitsun fell on.
Lammas was traditionally a harvest festival on 1st August, at which the first fruits of the harvest were offered. The name derives from the Anglo-Saxon for “loaf-mass” or “bread-feast”.
Martinmas was on 11th November. It was originally the feast of Saint Martin of Tours, a 4th century bishop and hermit.
In 1886 the term dates for the removal and hiring of servants in towns were changed to 28th May and 28th November.
David
Last edited by DavidWW on Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:17 am, edited 3 times in total.
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DavidWW
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Not unless Adam was alive and living in Scotland in the late 1800sAndrewP wrote:I have no idea why so recently, but these dates were stated in the "Term and Quarter Days (Scotland) Act 1990". (Google is useful, I don't pretend that I just happened to be familiar with the said Act.)
Candlemas - 28th February
Whitsunday - 28th May
Lammas - 28th August
Martinmas - 28th November]
I believe these dates to have been the quarter days used in Scotland since Adam was a boy.
All the best,
AndrewP
The 28th May and 28th Nov replaced the earlier term day dates for Whitsun, 15th May New Style, and Martinmas, 11th November New Style, in 1886.
Quite when the original dates for Candlemas and Lammas were also altered to the month end, I'm not sure.
David
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DavidWW
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Re: Quarter Dates
Hi JeanJean Jeanie wrote:There are 4 quarter dates in Scotland and 4 quarter dates in England. (I can expand on this if necessary)
In the 1840's/1850,s did the landed gentry in Scotland adopt the English quarter dates for tenancy etc?
I have ancestors in West Lothian who lived on the Earl of Buchan's estate and the answer to this question may solve a puzzle.
Jean
It all depends of the conditions of the tenancy agreement! While it was most common to refer to rentals falling due on the Scottish term days, there was nothing to prevent a landlord setting whatever dates he wanted, and, given the great preference for things English at that time, especially amongst a good proportion of the landed gentry, it wouldn't surprise me to find that a situation such as you suggest could have been the case.
David