Should I just give up? .....

[Jolan]

Hi

I am looking for inspiration and thought that perhaps TS might be the best place to start!

Although I have managed to go back quite a few generations on my mother’s side of the family, I now find myself coming full circle back to my Grandfather, and trying to find some answers. I have always been aware that my Grandfather was adopted, but that was all the information that was made available to family members. I had the original copy of his death certificate but had problems finding his birth certificate. On a visit to NRH, I discovered that his death was registered giving his name as Thomas McLeod (formerly James Stronach), so was able to find out that he was illegitimate and born in 1896 to a girl/woman from Elgin, who had travelled to ‘Royal Maternity Hospital, Edinburgh’ for the birth.

I have always accepted that because the official records on adoption started in 1930, it was not worth trying to follow this line, as the adoption was probably done privately. However a contact through GR has opened a ‘can of worms’ for me. I have found out that my 'Great Grandfather' through adoption was connected to my mother’s maternal side of the family, and now appears legitimately on my family tree!

It makes me wonder what happened in these days, and when did the changing of names by Deed Poll start? Would there be any records of a change of the child’s name pre 1900’s? How was the Registrar able to connect and know that my Grandfather, Thomas McLeod, was originally born James Stronach? Is there liable to be any information or a letter somewhere in NRH or NAS? I know that my father registered my Grandfather's death but he wasn’t able to give any of this information at the time.

Sorry that this is a bit lengthy, but wonder if anyone can fill in the some blanks for me.

Joanne

[DavidWW]

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I have always accepted that because the official records on adoption started in 1930, it was not worth trying to follow this line, as the adoption was probably done privately. However a contact through GR has opened a ‘can of worms’ for me. I have found out that my 'Great Grandfather' through adoption was connected to my mother’s maternal side of the family, and now appears legitimately on my family tree!

I'd need a bit more info to comment on this........

.....snipped ............
It makes me wonder what happened in these days, and when did the changing of names by Deed Poll start? Would there be any records of a change of the child’s name pre 1900’s? How was the Registrar able to connect and know that my Grandfather, Thomas McLeod, was originally born James Stronach? Is there liable to be any information or a letter somewhere in NRH or NAS? I know that my father registered my Grandfather's death but he wasn’t able to give any of this information at the time.

Sorry that this is a bit lengthy, but wonder if anyone can fill in the some blanks for me.

Joanne

There was never originally a Deed Poll procedure in Scotland. Scots Law was and is that you can call yourself any name that you like as long as there is no criminal or nefarious intent. (It looks like, in the modern world the English Deed Poll procedure can apply to Scotland - see http://www.ukdps.co.uk/WhoCanApply.html, - but I'm unsure for how long that has been the case.)

For formal registration of a change in Scotland, however, it's not necessary to go to a court or use the on-line Deed Poll service, but, as long as the birth took place in Scotland, apply to GROS - see http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/regscot/ ... -name.html.

In the case of a formal adoption, where there is a name change, there is a completely separate re-registration of the birth, with no link to the earlier register entry.

David

PS - Found this in the FAQ Section on the UK Deed Poll Service

"Q13: I live in Scotland and have been told that I cannot change my name by Deed Poll because the name change procedure is different in Scotland. Is this correct?
A: You have been wrongly advised. Although a deed poll is an English legal document, it is recognised by all UK government departments, companies and organisations. Therefore, you will not experience any problems getting all your documents and records changed to your new name (including your passport, driving licence, medical records etc). We issue many hundreds of Deed Polls to Scottish residents each year and we have never had any problems reported."

[Jolan]

Hello David

Thanks for your reply, but I'm not sure exactly what type of information you would be looking for when you say 'a bit more'.

I have had a look at the site you gave, regarding 'who can apply', and I'm not sure that I am any further forward. On this website it advices that if you 'reside in England, Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland ... you can apply for a Deed Poll by...', but from what you say, in Scottish Law this is not really necessary.

It is because of this that I have the problem. I am presuming that the adoption of my Grandfather was private and therefore the name change was a private issue with my Grandfather's name being changed to that of his newly adopted father. I have checked on SP to see if he was re-registered in his new name, but have been unable to find anything. This is where I have the problem. If in 1896 this was all done privately and there was no formal registration or documentation, when my Grandfather died in the 1970's, how was NRH able to match-up Thomas McLeod with the child that was born James Stronach? You mentioned GROS. Does that mean that there might be some documentation there?

Sorry if I am being 'thick' about this, but I feel that somewhere there has to be some detail or documentation that matches the two names together showing it as being the same person ... so to speak!

Joanne

[emanday]

I might be way off track here but, if he applied for something like a passport, etc... which required a birth certificate, wouldn't he have had to provide proper documentation or affidavit to explain the name difference.

I don't know how these things work in the background, but the new info may have found its way into the records that way?

[DavidWW]

Hello David

Thanks for your reply, but I'm not sure exactly what type of information you would be looking for when you say 'a bit more'.

How did you get the info on the connection to the maternal side?, - your own research or info from someone else?

I have had a look at the site you gave, regarding 'who can apply', and I'm not sure that I am any further forward. On this website it advices that if you 'reside in England, Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland ... you can apply for a Deed Poll by...', but from what you say, in Scottish Law this is not really necessary.

It is because of this that I have the problem. I am presuming that the adoption of my Grandfather was private and therefore the name change was a private issue with my Grandfather's name being changed to that of his newly adopted father. I have checked on SP to see if he was re-registered in his new name, but have been unable to find anything. This is where I have the problem. If in 1896 this was all done privately and there was no formal registration or documentation, when my Grandfather died in the 1970's, how was NRH able to match-up Thomas McLeod with the child that was born James Stronach? You mentioned GROS. Does that mean that there might be some documentation there?

Sorry if I am being 'thick' about this, but I feel that somewhere there has to be some detail or documentation that matches the two names together showing it as being the same person ... so to speak!

Joanne

It wasn't for the registrar to make a connection, - the info was almost certainly was supplied by the informant. Who was the informant?

David

[Jolan]

Thanks emanday - you have given me some food for thought! Although I doubt my Grandfather ever needed a passport, I would think that he needed his birth certificate when he married. I have a copy of his marriage certificate and details (from NAS website) of his divorce, but on both he gives his name as Thomas McLeod, and on his marriage certificate he gives his parents names as his adopted parents. Perhaps I need to pay a visit to NRH or NAS and see if I can find out any further information following these lines!

David - with regards to finding a connection to the maternal side, it's a bit of both. In my tree I already had Edmonds and McLeods on my maternal Grandmother's part of the tree, but thought that there were lots of people called McLeod, so did not associate them to my Grandfather's side. After recieving the information from the person that contacted me, I checked it out on SP, and was putting it into my family tree, when my software asked if I wanted to merge some duplicates. It transpires that the person she contacted me about Andrew Archibald had a daughter called Helen Archibald, who married John McLeod and one of their children was Thomas McLeod (the same person who adopted my Grandfather). I still haven't mentioned to her the 'can of worms' she has managed to open. I wanted to do some of my own research first, just to make sure.

With regards to the informant on the death certificate. It was my father who registered the death, and although my mother knew that her father had been adopted, she was never given any details, so there is no way that my father could have known. In lots of families in these days, things such as these never seemed to be discussed. I know that after my Grandfather's divorce, my mother was not allowed (the word I should be using here is forbidden) to see or speak to her mother, and again this topic was never to be broached, or open for discussion to her.

So many 'secrets' and so much intrigue

[DavidWW]

.......snipped..........

David - with regards to finding a connection to the maternal side, it's a bit of both. In my tree I already had Edmonds and McLeods on my maternal Grandmother's part of the tree, but thought that there were lots of people called McLeod, so did not associate them to my Grandfather's side. After recieving the information from the person that contacted me, I checked it out on SP, and was putting it into my family tree, when my software asked if I wanted to merge some duplicates. It transpires that the person she contacted me about Andrew Archibald had a daughter called Helen Archibald, who married John McLeod and one of their children was Thomas McLeod (the same person who adopted my Grandfather). I still haven't mentioned to her the 'can of worms' she has managed to open. I wanted to do some of my own research first, just to make sure.

Understood........

With regards to the informant on the death certificate. It was my father who registered the death, and although my mother knew that her father had been adopted, she was never given any details, so there is no way that my father could have known. In lots of families in these days, things such as these never seemed to be discussed. I know that after my Grandfather's divorce, my mother was not allowed (the word I should be using here is forbidden) to see or speak to her mother, and again this topic was never to be broached, or open for discussion to her.

So many 'secrets' and so much intrigue

Indeed.

I still find it difficult to believe that this was info that the registrar added the information !!

Is it possible for you to email me a scan ofthe death extract so that I can check out this situation with contacts? My email is davidwwebsterATcompuserve.com (replace the AT with @).

David