I am curious to know what this word means. .....

The History and Geography of Auld Scotia

Moderators: Global Moderators, Russell

scml
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:05 pm
Location: New South Wales, Australia

I am curious to know what this word means. .....

Post by scml » Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:06 am

Going through the index on NAS for court cases, I came across this term a few times:
11 Jan 1805, Verdict: Not proven, Verdict Comments: Assoilzied, Sentence: Assoilzied simpliciter and dismissed.

Can anyone tell me what "Assoilized" means.

Also, "outlawed and put to the horn".

Searches say the word "horn" means to be outlawed, but from the sentence above it seems it may mean something else?
Sandy MacLean
Researching McLean, MacLean, Ross, Gordon, MacKenzie, MacDonald, in the Ullapool, Leckmelm, Lochbroom area.
Marshall, Gemmell, Gimmel, in Paisley, Renfrew area.
Young, Caldwell, in Glasgow area.

AndrewP
Site Admin
Posts: 6189
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:36 am
Location: Edinburgh

Re: I am curious to know what this word means.

Post by AndrewP » Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:21 am

Hi Sandy,
scml wrote:Can anyone tell me what "Assoilized" means.
From Chambers Dictionary:
Assoilize: to absolve (Scot.); to free (defender or accused) of a claim or charge (Scots law)
scml wrote:Also, "outlawed and put to the horn".
Also from Chambers Dictionary:
Put to the horn: (obs. Scots law) to outlaw by three blasts of the horn at the Cross of Edinburgh

All the best,

AndrewP

scml
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:05 pm
Location: New South Wales, Australia

Post by scml » Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:49 am

Thanks for that Andrew :) I appreciate your help. You certainly were quick at answering my query. Now the term 'outlawed and put to the horn' makes sense. I guess that would have been the old way of "putting it on the news" :P
Sandy MacLean
Researching McLean, MacLean, Ross, Gordon, MacKenzie, MacDonald, in the Ullapool, Leckmelm, Lochbroom area.
Marshall, Gemmell, Gimmel, in Paisley, Renfrew area.
Young, Caldwell, in Glasgow area.

AnneM
Global Moderator
Posts: 1587
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:51 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire

Post by AnneM » Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:52 pm

Hi

As Andrew says assoilzied means acquitted, found not guilty. The z is silent so it is pronounced assoilied. David W is very good on the subject of thorns and yoghs. It is like the z in Menzies which is properly pronounced Mingis or McFadzean which is McFadgen. I guess my name should rightly be pronounced MacKingie ot MacKenny.

It is worth remembering that there remain 2 not guilty verdicts in Scots Criminal Law, not guilty and not proven. There is a school of thought that originally the only 2 possible verdicts were guilty and not proven which stresses that the reponsibility is on the Crown to prove the case to the satisfaction of the court and that if it has not done so the accused is entitled to be acquitted. The not guilty verdict may be an English import which has now displaced the not proven to make it into some kind of lesser verdict or as some wit said it means "Not guilty but don't do it again"

Sure you did not need this rant.

Anne
Last edited by AnneM on Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Anne
Researching M(a)cKenzie, McCammond, McLachlan, Kerr, Assur, Renton, Redpath, Ferguson, Shedden, Also Oswald, Le/assels/Lascelles, Bonning just for starters

AnneM
Global Moderator
Posts: 1587
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:51 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire

Post by AnneM » Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:54 pm

Assoilzed could also be used in some civil cases to mean to find for the defender.

Anne
Anne
Researching M(a)cKenzie, McCammond, McLachlan, Kerr, Assur, Renton, Redpath, Ferguson, Shedden, Also Oswald, Le/assels/Lascelles, Bonning just for starters

DavidWW
Posts: 5057
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

Post by DavidWW » Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:06 pm

I thought that the original pre-1707 possible verdicts in a Scots court were "proven" or "not proven", the logic being that guilt is very difficult to prove or disprove, and that the purpose of the court was to pronounce on whether the charge could be proven or not proven.

Then, later, some parliamentary clerk remembered to do away with the "proven" verdict when "guilty" and "not guilty" were introduced, but forgot to do away with "not proven". :shock:

David

PS Later, - wayullll - I maybe got the dates wrong, - see Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_proven .

See also http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1341552004

dww
Last edited by DavidWW on Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AnneM
Global Moderator
Posts: 1587
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:51 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire

Post by AnneM » Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:12 pm

Could well be David. A lot of that stuff is lost in the mists of time. We are for example very clear about the difference between civil and criminal matters but back before the mid C18 it was not unusual to find that in what we would now call a civil case the decision of the court was that the defender did 'wrang' or did 'na wrang'.

You might be right about the proven and not proven but I'm not sure then retention of the not proven was an accident. I'll check the work copy of Gordon's criminal law tomorrow at lunchtime, if I get one!!!

Anne

It's worth remembering in all of this that until comparatively modern times i.e. post the '45 central authority in Scotland was not that strong and that informal justice also flourished under the clan system. My understanding is that England became much more centralised after 1066 and all that.
Anne
Researching M(a)cKenzie, McCammond, McLachlan, Kerr, Assur, Renton, Redpath, Ferguson, Shedden, Also Oswald, Le/assels/Lascelles, Bonning just for starters

DavidWW
Posts: 5057
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

Post by DavidWW » Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:17 pm

Anne

See the Wikipedia article that Google found :!:

David

AnneM
Global Moderator
Posts: 1587
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:51 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire

Post by AnneM » Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:19 pm

Ta David but I'll stick with books! T'internet is a wonderful thing but I like my sources to be on paper and preferably edited by someone I know to be sound!! Particularly when the internet version refers to Scottish Law. What the blue blazes is that? I am a Scots lawyer and make no apology for it. And also what in our words is a defense lawyer......... a defence lawyer maybe. Next they'll be talking about attorneys.

Anne
Anne
Researching M(a)cKenzie, McCammond, McLachlan, Kerr, Assur, Renton, Redpath, Ferguson, Shedden, Also Oswald, Le/assels/Lascelles, Bonning just for starters