They marry in Bothwell & drop off face of earth...help p

[Jockbird]

Hello.

In a bid to save my sanity I'm hoping that someone may be able to help me with this couple.

I'm looking for information on John Millar of Bothwell who married Janet Gray (or Grey) also of Bothwelll on 21st June 1834....in the Parish of Bothwell.

I know they had a son George Gray Millar born circa 1840 and in later census he gives his place of birth as Hamilton.

From George's marriage certificate is states that both parents were deceased when he married in Dalziel in 1870.

If anyone has any information or pointers for this couple that'd be great.

Thanks for reading.
Donna

Researching:-
In Ayrshire - Kilpatrick, Ballantine, Muir, Hardie, Henderson, Paterson
In Lanarkshire & Glasgow -Black, Hamilton, Millar, McAllister, Torrance, Gibb, McNeil
In North East Scotland - Grant, McNeil, Cruickshank, Wilson, Ferguson & suspect my Gibbs originated from there.

[Jack]

Hi Donna,
A warm welcome to TalkingScot !
--
Do you know of any siblings to your George Gray MILLAR born abt 1840?
Or maybe one of the witnesses on his 1870 MC was related to him? Say a brother?
Could his mother Jane GRAY have died by 1849?
And her hubby John MILLAR then re-married a Margaret? (possibly DOBBIE)
--
Jack

[Jockbird]

Hello Jack,

Good to hear form you and thanks for the lovely welcome.

Unfortunately old George (gx2 grandfather) did nothing so helpful as to have any siblings witness anything.

However, your mention of Janet possibly dying and John remarrying is interesting. I've not yet found Janet's death post 1855 and I know that she is listed as deceased in 1870. I had also viewed, what I thought at the time was a sure fire winner on the 1851 census which had a John Millar as a Cooper and a George of the right age, born in the right place, as per later census......but the wife was Margaret.

Your reply put a different slant on things and last night I looked at the possibility of this John being mine...certainly born Bothwell and then being in Hamilton, having a son in Hamilton called George and George then names his children after the names of the siblings on that census seem to be more than coincidence.

I then looked up the same family in 1861, no Margaret, but everything else rang true and George was now a Cooper by then...too much of a coincidence surely.

I got that John's death certificate (1867 in Hamilton) and unhelpfully all that was put was 'widower'....usually they list who they've been married to and I thought that would seal things. I even bought his will and he only refers to the 'rest of his unmarried children' but he does mention a William Gray in it, again points to a link with Janet Gray. He does die of heart disease which runs through that side of the family, so that's another pointer.

I'm 99.9% sure I have the right chap but just don't know what to do next to prove it.

Thank you for your help because I'd initially dismissed this lot because of Margaret....case possibly of not seeing the wood for the trees.

Just need to work out where to go next and to find out what befell poor Janet.

Cheerio for now
Donna
k

[Jack]

Hi Donna,
I think we've been looking at the same censuses....
Not too sure if John MILLAR's ages are correct as i haven't seen the original pages.
By the way, who was the informant on John MILLAR's 1867 DC? A son or daur?

The 1841 census for John MILLAR & Janet GRAY could help.
If they have Jane abt 5, William abt 2, and hopefully a George abt 1 then these censuses would look quite promising.
Also if John's occupation in 1841 was a cooper.
--
1851 census 647 (657) Ed 9 p 3 (Hamilton)
John MILLER, 40, b Bothwell
Margaret MILLER, 40, b Lanark
Jane MILLER, 15, b Bothwell
William MILLER, 12, b Bothwell
George MILLER, 10, b Hamilton
Janet MILLER, 7, b Hamilton
John MILLER, 5, b Hamilton
James HARRISON, 11, b Lanark
Eliza BROCKWELL, 18, b Millheugh
[are the last 2 named with the family?]
--
1861 census 647 Ed 8 p 8 (Hamilton)
John MILLAR, 58, b Bothwell
Jean MILLAR, 24, b Bothwell
William MILLAR, 22, b Bothwell
George MILLAR, 19, b Hamilton
Janet MILLAR, 16, b Hamilton
John MILLAR, 14, b -----------
--
Might be worth following up on ALL the children of this family.
Usefully there are 5 children living in 1861 - so hopefully they stayed on in Scotland for any MCs, DCs, censuses.
So if you can find the other 4 children with the right ages,
and with the same parent details as your George, then things would be looking good.
But MILLAR / MILLER is never an easy name to search; more so with those popular forenames.....
--
Jack

[Jockbird]

Hello again Jack,

Thanks for your reply. Like you suggested I had started to look for the siblings, more with a view to the 1841 census but was swiftly running out of credits, so at this juncture I think I shall wait to try that on Ancestry...they definitely aren't on Freecen.

It was the son William who was the informant for the death of John and Jean is named in the will as she's being left her mother's chest of drawers.

James Harrison is listed as 'son', presumably Margaret's which would indicate a second marriage, Eliza is the house servant. Funnily enough neither are on that 1861 census.

Until I started this I didn't realise just how common my maiden name is around that neck of the woods.......off to Ancestry I go.

Cheerio for now
Donna


p.s Have now found them on the 1841 census living in Quarry Loan Street. John, wife Jenet, daughter Jane born 1835 and son Wiliiam born 1838!!! No George, presumably Janet was just about to have him and it puts them in the right place at the right time.......I'm now 99.99% sure it's the right lot but would've like George to be on there to make it definite...c'est la vie.

[Jack]

Hi Donna,
A pity, but seems your GG-GF George MILLER was born after the census was taken in June 1841.
--
1841 census 647 Ed 4 p 19 (Hamilton)
Quarry Loan Street.
John MILLER, 35, cooper, b LKS
Jenet MILLER, 35, ---------b LKS
Jane MILLER, 6, -----------b LKS
William MILLLER, 3, -----b LKS
--
John's 2nd wife Margaret DOBIE was previously married to a James HARROWER.
--
JAMES HARROWER
MARGARET DOBIE
Marriage: 08 JUN 1838 Lanark, Lanark, Scotland
--
The name of 11yr old "son" James "HARRISON" with John MILLER in 1851 is actually HARROWER.
(a close inspection of the census page reveals this)
--
1861 census 648 Ed 1 p 19 (Lanark)
Castlegate.
Mrs James HARROWER, head, marr, 55, ---------------------b Lanark, LKS
James HARROWER, son, u/m 21, general lawyers? clerk, b Lanark, LKs
Margaret DOBIE, niece, u/m 20, servant, b Lanark, LKS
Daniel SIBBALD, lodger, u/m 17, draper, b Lanark, LKS
--
Margaret HARROWER ms DOBIE died aged 81 in Lanark 1887.
1st hubby - James HARROWER.
2nd hubby - John MILLAR. Divorced.
So that could explain why they weren't still together for 1861....
--
Jack
ps, great - just noticed you've already got John & Jenet in 1841.

[Jockbird]

Hello Jack, you're a star!

Thank you for taking the time to look up that census information....good thing is we found the same family, builds the case a wee bit more.

The fact John was divorced from 2nd wife may explain why William, the son & informant of his father's death, only put him down as a widower, rather than muddy the waters with extra detail.

I cannot think what other documents I could look at to find John, Janet & George altogether (I have George's MC & DC) but with what I have it builds a very strong case, especially as these names are all then used with George's children....well the male ones are.

Now to find out more about Janet...there is a BIVRI entry for a Janet Gray born in 1798 in Bothwell, father's name...wait for it....George Gray! if only she could've hung on until 1855.

Thanks again for all that help, it's great and so kind of you.
Cheerio for now
Donna

[Jack]

Hi Donna,
I could well believe that son William, as the informant, could conveniently "forget" his father John's 2nd wife.
Maybe her name was "never mentioned"....
But you'd have thought he would've given his father's 1st wife; after all, it was his own mother!

I don't know what else you could find with John, Janet & George all together.
Like yourself, i'd also be 99.99% sure that you have the correct family - too many good coincidences.
George's four siblings' MCs & DCs should boost this percentage.

That was useful in finding a Janet Gray born 1798 with a father George; certainly looks very promising.
Maybe take note of all the Gray families in the Bothwell area and follow them down through the years?
Jack
ps, your mention of daur Jean being left her mother's chest of drawers,
reminded me of the lovely young lady who has her granny's pair of drawers as a memento....
Name withheld because i want to live a bit longer....
I've got my granny's 2 bone egg-spoons!

[CatrionaL]

Hi Donna,


ps, your mention of daur Jean being left her mother's chest of drawers,
reminded me of the lovely young lady who has her granny's pair of drawers as a memento....
Name withheld because i want to live a bit longer....
I've got my granny's 2 bone egg-spoons!

[Jockbird]

Well there's a thought Jack!

Gave me a good wee chuckle....although I don't think I'd like to be the recipient!

Donna
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