Any thoughts on this team photo?.....

Dubbleu · Post by **Dubbleu** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:44 pm

I made contact with a distant cousin who had a box of old photos from his mother. After she passed away he tossed the box because he had no idea who the people were in the photographs (gasp!). Anyway, he kept just a handful and sent me copies of 3 that he identified as tin types. I am hoping these might be my LIVINGSTONE ancestors from Glasgow who immigrated to Connecticut in 1873. The team photo may hold the biggest clue if I can identify a time period or location that matches what I know about them already. Any thoughts?
http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... p?pos=-720
This man appears to be the same fellow who is in the center of the team photo.
http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... p?pos=-722

Thanks!
Wendy

Russell · Post by **Russell** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:33 pm

Hi Wendy

Terrific photos. They have survived extremely well.
I would agree that the guy in the centre is almost certainly the same as the solo photo. You can change hair styles but not the way it sheds. His parting is identical.
Slight change in mustache but that could depend on when he last took the shears to it.
Fine featured too.
He looks as though he was quite tall - around 6 foot to 6 foot two.

Just a pity the lad on the right front had not moved even a few inches to the side so we could see the logos.
I wondered about it being a 'family' photo though. There tends to be an inherited hair line pattern either from Dad's side or the maternal side and the two at the back - middle and right have totally different patterns.
No clues as to what sport they were involved in?
My thinking cap is jammed on so tight its giving me a headache

See if anyone else comes up with a positive ID or at least a hint.

Russell

Post by **emanday** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:04 pm

Couldn't be Pollokshaws Rowing Club, could it?

Russell · Post by **Russell** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:23 pm

Hi again Wendy

How old were the children when they moved over to the States?

The tintype process was available widely from the 1870's on (Info courtesy of edinphoto.org.uk) It was only towards the 1890's that larger pictures were taken. The reversed image appears to have been a characteristic of the process.
Mary's suggestion is an idea if they were old enough beore they left to be members.
To me the block capitals of the logos look more typically American. Scottish flamboyance would probably be a tiny oak leaf over the left breast or something

Any way tintypes were mostly made in America.
I can't think of a sport where there are six in a team. Even rowing tends to be 2, 4 or 8 in a crew.
(Before everybody jumps on me, I know that nowadays there are quite a few sports with 6 team members. I'm thinking a hundred and odd years ago) Even I have no actual experience that far back

Russell

Dubbleu · Post by **Dubbleu** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:18 pm

When the family came to the States in 1873 there were three boys, Thomas 10, Harry 8, David 4. In 1891 Harry age 23 & David LIVINGSTONE age 21 joined the Buffalo Bill Wild West Show as musicians with the Cowboy Band and traveled with his show through Europe. The Wild West Show spent 3 months in Glasgow, Dec. 1891- Feb 1892 where maternal relatives (SPENCERS) still resided. (The paternal line is still a bit of a brick wall, so their status at that time is unknown).

My third picture didn't copy as well but I believe the fellow in the center appears in the other photos as well. http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... p?pos=-721 I only lean towards thinking this is the LIVINGSTONE family because of the three men (3 sons?) in the photo and I feel that the man sitting in front bears some resemblance to my uncle and one of my brothers although I may just be projecting wishful thinking. If the 3 men are Thomas, David & Harry in the 1890s then their parents would have been in their 60s at the time. The infant could have been a grandchild. Another thought is that the photo was taken when the Wild West Show was in Glasgow and these people were relatives visted by the musician sons at the time. (My ggg-grandmother did have younger sisters & brothers who had infants around 1890-92).

Pollokshaws Rowing Club sounds wonderful because John LIVINGSTONE b. 1833 listed his place of birth as Pollokshaws on both the 1861 & 1871 census. He left Glasgow in April 1873 to settle in Connecticut and was followed in July 1873 by his wife and 8 children. (Both John & his wife traveled to the US from Liverpool not Glasgow.)

The family worked at the Ponemah Mills in Taftville, Connecticut from 1880 on. The only other guess that I've come up with otherwise has been Ponemah Racing Club, thinking it might be a cycling team of some sort. I have been unable to verify that such a team even existed and I do not know how many would have been on a cycling team. I also don't know if any of the Livingstones were cyclists, but one daughter's husband was on a team. The photo of the fellow in the chair looks as though he were a little better off than a mill worker. The middle son Harry did not return to his work in the mill after the Buffalo Bill show but continued to work as a musician (US census records 1900-1930).

I know it's a bit of a wild goose chase but it seems like there's probably a really good clue in one of these photos if I could just figure it out!
Thanks!
Wendy

Post by **emanday** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:14 pm

A team of six could be explained by...

A coxed four:- four oarsmen and the cox plus the trainer.

StewL · Post by **StewL** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:48 am

I think Mary may be right about the cox'd fours, cox plus trainer. Looking again at the team photo. in the back row middle, he appears to be much smaller and possibly a bit younger than the others (cox?). The gentleman on the right rear row appears to be a bit older than the other four (L rear and three sitting in front). But of course this is mere speculation.

Davie · Post by **Davie** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:10 pm

Hi
Like Russell, I think the team photo is American.
Never seen anything like that from here.
No idea what sport.
However, It is a great photo and glad you shared it with us.
Nothing to do with the pic, but if you go onto

http://www.distantcousin.com/
You will find the Directory for a few States including Conneticut in the 19th century.

Davie

Dubbleu · Post by **Dubbleu** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:38 pm

Thanks. This has been very helpful. I will focus more on the US but at least I have some more ideas of what kind of team it might be since I hadn't thought at all the R C could be Rowing Club. There are some "P" possibilities within the range of where the family has lived, including Providence or Pawtucket, Rhode Island and the Ponemah Mills in Taftville, CT.

Thanks for the link on the directories. I'll head there right now!