This "will o the wisp" Great Grandmother Lorimer

[emanday]

The story so far;

In 16/2/1872 John Stewart, age 24 and Ann Robertson age 20 married in High Church, Glasgow GRO Ref 644/02 0147

Ann's parents' marriage, John Robertson and Janet Lorimer, do not appear to be on SP. I can find no trace of Janet Lorimer's BC, Census records always state she was born in Stirling. Her DC gives her father as ------- Lorimer, mother as Janet Chalmers. I found an IGI marriage for David Lorimer / Janet Chalmers 1832 in Stirling, but nothing on SP.

Equally, John Robertson's BC and DC do not appear to be on SP, but as Janet married a Daniel Drummond c1855, I can only assume he died between Ann's 1852 birth and Janet's 2nd marriage. As I cannot find Janet and Daniel's MC either, I cannot be certain John did actually die, or if they got divorced.

Janet and Daniel Drummond appear to have had two sons, David and Daniel...

I have a DC for a David Drummond, correct parents, for 1857 at 15 months old, so he'd have been born around June 1856.
I also have David Drummond BC and he was born in 1857, correct parents.

Should note here that on both DC and BC father is shown as deceased. I have found a DC for a Daniel Drummond 1857 in Glasgow, (no wife's name but shown as married). The age and occupation is spot on, but this same Daniel was also believed to be the widower of an Ann Comrie, both from Perthshire.

In 1894 Janet died, aged 63, in Strathearn Combination Poorhouse, Perth, and I have received confirmation of her admittance to that institution on 1893 from a very helpful Perth & Kinross archivist. The informant on the DC, a daughter who only signed as E Smith but gave her address in Glasgow. Turns out she was Ann's older sister Elizabeth.

As yet I have been unable to find any signs of a Poorhouse application for Janet. Apparently she was funded by Madderty Parish, Perth, as she seemed to have been living there by that time, which seems appropriate as she'd married a Perthshire man and may have gone back there after he died.

If young David Drummond survived and had descendants, they are relatives, and I have got way beyond just following my direct lines. My original object was just to create a family tree for my son and daughter. Now it has turned into more of a history of my entire family.

Although my census searches haven't come up with anything I'd take as certainty, I strongly feel that young Ann and Elizabeth Robertson did not reside with their mother after her marriage to Daniel Drummond.

Maybe John didn't die; a divorce perhaps? And young Ann and Elizabeth went wherever with Dad?

My mystery/s...

When and where did John and Janet marry
When and where did John die
When did Janet marry Daniel Drummond

[emanday]

Has anyone got any ideas?

[AndrewP]

I found an IGI marriage for David Lorimer / Janet Chalmers 1832 in Stirling, but nothing on SP.

Hi Mary,

One piece for your jigsaw. I did an SP (free) search and it finds a marriage for David Lorimer and Janet Calmers on 03-Feb-1832 in Stirling.

All the best,

AndrewP

[nelmit]

Had a look at the poorhouse applications while at The Mitchell (just in case ) but no joy I'm afraid.

Annette M

[isobelc]

Hi Mary,

Not sure if you have the following census entries which I believe pertain to your great grandmother.

1861 8 Castle Wynd Stirling

Janet Drummond Head 33 marital status -'N.K.' born Raploch, Stirling
Jean Prentice daughter 16 Factory Girl born Stirling
Elizabeth Donaldson daughter 13 Factory Girl born Stirling
Ann Donaldson daughter 9 born Stirling
Janet Drummond daughter 7 Scholar born Stirling
David Drummond son 3 born Stirling
Margaret Wilson daughter 1 month born Stirling

I think Margaret Wilson is probably the Margaret Lorimer born to Janet Lorimer in Stirling in February 1861. Strangely, although their is an igi entry for this which appears to come from an extract source (ie not a patron submission) there is not a corresponding entry in Scotlandspeople, so not possible to check details.

1851 Baker Street, Stirling

David Lorimer Head widower 28 Weaver born Stirling
Janet Lorimer Sister 27 unmarried Home Servant born Stirling
Ann Lorimer Sister 17 unmarried born Stirling
John Lorimer Brother 17 unmarried born Stirling
Jean Prentice daughter? 6 born Stirling
Elizabeth Robertson daughter ? age 3 born Stirling
Ann Donaldson daughter? age 3 months born Stirling

1841 Lower Bridge Street, Stirling

Widow Lorimer 40 Independent born in county
John Lorimer 20 Woollen Weaver " "
David Lorimer 15 Woollen Weaver " "
Janet Lorimer 15 At a Woollen Factory " "
William Lorimer 13 " "
Ann Lorimer 8 " "
James Lorimer 6 " "

1871 12 Broad Street Stirling

Janet Drummond Widow 42 Factory woman born Stirling
Marion Drummond daughter 9 born Stirling
David Drummond son 14 Piecer in Mill born Stirling

1881 26 St John Street Stirling
Janet Drumond widow 52 Housekeeper born Stirling
David Drumond son 22 Farm Servant born Stirling
Mary Ann Drumond daughter 19 Carpet Printer born Stirling

All this probably poses more questions than it answers,but I hope it helps.

Regards,
Isobel

[emanday]

Hi Isobel,

RE:

more questions than answers

I'd say you've discovered stuff I've been unable to find. Only done a quick calculation on some ages v potential birth dates on some of those, but looking more positive now. Thanks

Thanks AndrewP for confirming Janet's parents marriage. I was sure that was them, but didn't want to let my enthusiasm to say "yes" too soon. Having someone else reach the same conclusion really is helpful.

Our Janet Lorimer seems to be a really difficult one, but she IS my Great Great Grandmother, and I'd like to be able to say who she was and what she did, (well, children and marriage wise at least.)

Annette, I've even written to Madderty Parish church to ask for help, but they haven't even replied to my enquiry. I suppose it irks me to know that she died in a poorhouse when she had at least three living children, one running an eating house in Glasgow.

It seems that her marriages, (or rather husbands), are as much of a mystery. Daniel Drummond, 2nd husband, seems to have been the one who died in Glasgow in 1857 who was already a widower when he married Janet. John Robertson, 1st husband and my Great Great Grandfather, simply seems to have simply slipped off the radar, (i.e. No marriage found, no death found.) The only proof of his existence is on the BC's of his children.