sentence-final 'but'/'so'/'then'/meanings.....

smhttiki · Post by **smhttiki** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:47 pm

hello, I am a linguist working on Scottish English, and more esp. on sentence-final connectives such as 'but', 'so, and 'then'. I would highly appreciate your help in the following.
What does sentence-final 'but' mean? Does it refer to a contrast? Can you paraphrase it by 'though'? Or is just a way of saying 'indeed'/'really'? Can sentence-final 'but' be preceded by a comma, that is a pause in speech? If so, is it the same meaning as the one which is not preceded by a comma?
The same questions apply to 'so' and 'then'.
Thanks for your feedback
Cheers
sylh

Post by **Tracey** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:01 pm

Hi sylh

Welcome to TS

I am afraid your question goes right over my head .

sentence-final connectives such as 'but', 'so, and 'then'

Is this exclusive to Scotts-English language ? i thought it was universal.
I quite often end a sentance in "but" purely to stop me rambling on.............

Montrose Budie · Post by **Montrose Budie** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:47 am

In Glasgow it can mean nothing, - just a word which, in the local patois, is stuck on to the end [was "ned"

] of many sentences by people, sometimes just about every sentence.

The equivalent in Dundee is "ken".

David

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:27 am

In Scotland, sentence-final connectives are used to inform the listener that the speaker has not finished the conversational narrative. The actual word used is immaterial, and as Montrose Budie stated, varies widely according to the region.

Conversational etiquette in Scotland requires that the speaker pause to indicate that listener may commence their reply. It is considered extremely bad manners to talk over the top of another person's conversation. Therefore, the addition of an arbitrary sentence-final connective assists both parties in the smooth transfer of conversational precedence.

In many parts of England, particularly the South-East, it is normal conversational technique to interrupt the speaker when the listener feels that an answer is appropriate. As a result, the newly arrived Scot may find themselves waiting, interminably, for a indication of a gap in the narrative and becoming increasingly frustrated while the English person wonders why the Scot never enters the conversation.

The reverse, of course, happens with the newly arrived English person in Scotland. The constant interruption of narrative results in the English person being unfairly branded as uncouth and ill mannered.

To sum up, when a Scot uses the sentence-final corrective, he (or she) is still talking. When he (or she) stops - you may speak.

davesloan

Moonwatcher · Post by **Moonwatcher** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:42 pm

Post by **emanday** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:01 pm

You know what, davesloan?

I've lived in England for that majority of the last 30 odd years, and I still get irritated at being interrupted, even though I know it is the norm.

Both my children were born here, but raised with the Scottish manner of not interrupting. Now that they are adults, that has fallen by the wayside, except when having a conversation with me or anyone else with a Scottish accent. Seems that this switches on a "Scottish manners" part of their brain.

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:23 pm

Virtually every country I've visited or lived in has its own local rules, and I can "accidentally [sometimes on purpose]" be very rude, without using any particular words, in either English or Swedish, to a Swede. Body language also plays a major role. One major difference in Sweden which throws many people is that, when you ask a Swede a question, and they are quiet, even for as long as a minute, that is highly positive, not negative

But across the Baltic, conventions are different in Finland, - I didn't live there but visited Suomi/Finland [hence the "SF" car plate!] for 40+ days a year for approaching 15 years, on business and private visits.

And just don't ask about Japan (altho' they have the excellent "Hai!" feedback mechanism, - if this doesn't occur at very regular intervals it means the listener is no longer with you, and you need to backtrack, - a highly formalised version of our "OK!" or "With you!"); or, the most impenetrable folk I know in the whole world, - South Koreans.

David

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:30 pm

Moonwatcher wrote:Eh!?

Didn't you mean "Eh!?, but",

David

AnnetteR · Post by **AnnetteR** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:20 pm

Ah well but - bein the well broat up Scottish lassie that ah um an always taught no tae interupt when somewan's speakin whit dae ye dae if ye canny get a wurd in sideyways wi somewan who'll jist no stop jibberin oan - but?

David - where did ye get eh 'woo hoo' fae but?

Cheers

Annette R

Davie · Post by **Davie** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:43 pm

hello, I am a linguist working on Scottish English, and more esp. on sentence-final connectives such as 'but', 'so, and 'then'. I would highly appreciate your help in the following.
What does sentence-final 'but' mean? Does it refer to a contrast? Can you paraphrase it by 'though'? Or is just a way of saying 'indeed'/'really'? Can sentence-final 'but' be preceded by a comma, that is a pause in speech? If so, is it the same meaning as the one which is not preceded by a comma?
The same questions apply to 'so' and 'then'.
Thanks for your feedback
Cheers
sylh

Ah'm wey you Tracy,
Gonnie somewan translate yon intae the Queen's English as it is spoke innat.
By the way, or Incidently (dependin' oan wher ye bide) welcome to TS Sylh.

Davie