Barr family.....

[AnneMT]

.
My great great grandmother was Margaret Barr, born 1827, Campbelltown. Her parents were Robert Barr and Ann Gillies (sometimes recorded as McDonald).

1841 census shows them at Kirk St., Parish of Kirkfield in Gorbals.
Robert aged 30 was a Cotton H.L.W. and Ann was 30. Their children were Margaret (14)Cotton P.L.W., Peter (9), Daniel (7) Robert (1).

1851 census shows them at 129 Main St., Gorbals. Robert (42) Hand Loom Weaver, Ann (40), Margaret (19) Power Loom Weaver, Peter (17), Bookbinder, Donald (15) Lithographic Printer, Robert (11) Scholar, Ann (6), and James (6 mths).

May also have been a daughter Helen and son William, but not shown on census.

Can anyone connect with any member of this family? The names are so common, it would cost a fortune to check out everyone on line.

[emanday]

Wild goose - probably But, as you say, this surname is a real (expensive) headeache.

Do you know who Ann Gillies (McDonald) parents were?

I'm asking because the M(a)cDonald line of my lot used Barr as a middle name, only once it is true, but I've never been able to find out where it came from. Apart from Margaret, Robert, James being names they used a lot, there is also a Helen and a Marion whose namesakes have yet to be found.

Also I have a Donald M(a)cDonald, born in 1837, but was also a Lithographer Printer (maybe a cousin who got apprenticed as well?). The family came to Glasgow from Isle of Luing in Argyll.

There is also a McKillop connection and a Clark.

[AnneMT]

Do you know who Ann Gillies (McDonald) parents were?

Thanks for your reply. My reason for mentioning McDonald was, that Margaret Barr's OPR birth index shows her mother as Anne McDonald. I wonder if McDonald is meant to be a middle name, but that is only a guess. She married Robert Barr in May 1826. I have no knowledge so far of Robert and Ann's parents details.

Since posting original message on board have found 3 members of Barr/Gillies family on Genes Reunited.

Would be interested in details of your family member with Barr as middle name. May come across him/her in my research.

[StewL]

Doing a parent search on BVRI for Robert and Ann only brings up these two, although you already have this information

BARR, Ann Christening
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 25 Dec 1837 Birthplace: , Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Recorded in: Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland
Father: Robert BARR
Mother: Ann GILLIES
Source: FHL Film 102921 + Dates: 1832 – 1856


BARR, James Rankine Christening
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 13 Oct 1850 Birthplace: , Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Recorded in: Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland
Father: Robert BARR
Mother: Ann GILLIES
Source: FHL Film 102923 + Dates: 1832 – 1856

I also found this possible birth for Ann, it was the only one with a McDonald as her mother.

GILLIES, Ann Christening
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 17 Feb 1813
Christening Date: 1 Mar 1813
Recorded in: Balfron, Stirlingshire, Scotland
Father: Robert GILLIES
Mother: Margaret MCDONALD
Source: FHL Film 1041971 Dates: 1742 – 1819

There are a couple more children to this couple but I didn’t included them in case she isn’t yours.

On the 1851 census does it say where Robert and Ann were born? This may help narrow it down a bit.

[emanday]

The Barr middle name is Marion Barr McMillan Crichton. Her sister Margaret Ross Crichton marriage a Charles MacDonald.

OK so how does that match up, you ask? Well, although I've not found them yet, I have reason to believe that the Crichton and MacDonald families may have met in previous generations and the Barr and McMillan and Ross middle names might be spouses of siblings of these "meetings" if you catch my drift.

However, with so many M(a)cDonalds, I've not spent a lot trying to follow them back on really "branched lines".

[Jack]

Hi Anne,
As Stewie was asking; where were Robert & Ann as born in the 1851 census?
[i now know it has all the family as b Glasgow...but it shouldn't...]
There is an Ann BARR (50) in 1861 as born Dumbarton - of any use?
If not, then it's back to the drawing board....
Jack
--
ps later, did daur Ann BARR (b.1845 Gorbals) marry a Hugh CALDWELL in Glasgow 1866?
--

[AnneMT]

The Barr middle name is Marion Barr McMillan Crichton. Her sister Margaret Ross Crichton marriage a Charles MacDonald.

OK so how does that match up, you ask? "

Thanks for the info and sorry I have not replied sooner. PC problems and had to format hard drive. Hopefully back online for a while.

Will let you know if I find any connections. Have found two branches of Barr family via Genes Reunited. Now have abt 10 children in all for Robert and Ann Barr.

[AnneMT]

Hi Anne,
As Stewie was asking; where were Robert & Ann as born in the 1851 census?
[i now know it has all the family as b Glasgow...but it shouldn't...]

Although the 1851 census is wrong, the 1841 census shows them as living at Kirk St., North side in Parish of Kirkfield, Gorbals, but Gorbals has been scored out. The entry Y entered against box asking "if lived in Scotland, state whether in county or otherwise", and N "if foreign, born in England or Ireland". This looks abt right, but is not much help.

As I have only recently found more family members, have not located them in later census, but it is a very common name.

Thanks for your help. Onward and upward (hopefully)

Not sure if Margaret, my gt grandmother would be on 1861 with family, as she married Peter Denovan (also known as Donovan and Dunnachie) in 1862. He was based at Paisley Barracks as 29th foot soldier on marr. cert.

Perhaps I may be lucky to find other family members on later census lists.

There is an Ann BARR (50) in 1861 as born Dumbarton - of any use?
If not, then it's back to the drawing board....
Jack

Have two Anne's in family, one must have died, and the other born 1845 married Hugh Caldwell, as mentioned below. They had son Hugh, and daughters Sarah(1866) and Ann.
--
ps later, did daur Ann BARR (b.1845 Gorbals) marry a Hugh CALDWELL in Glasgow 1866?
--

[Jack]

Hi Anne,
This was the Ann BARR i was mentioning - but you may already have this 1861 census?
Children Ann & James in 1861 have names, and near ages, to fit the 2 youngest in 1851.
There's a very good chance there will be an Ann BARR aged abt 60 in the Gorbals area 1871.
--
1851 census 644-2 (512) Ed 5 p 26 (Gorbals - Proper)
129 Main Street.
Robert BARR, head, marr, 42, hand loom weaver, b Glasgow, LKS
Ann BARR, wife, marr, 40, ------------------------------b Glasgow, LKS [sic]
Margaret BARR, daur, u/m 19, power loom weaver, b Glasgow, LKS
Peter BARR, son, u/m 17, bookbinder, b Glasgow, LKS
Donald BARR, son, 15, lithographic printer, b Glasgow, LKS
Robert BARR, son, 11, scholar, b Glasgow, LKS
Ann BARR, daur, 6, -------------b Glasgow, LKS
James BARR, son, 6mos, ---b Glasgow, LKS
--
1861 census 644-9 Ed 40 p 9 (Govan - Tradeston)
31 Centre Street.
Ann BARR, head, widow, 50, ---------b Dumbarton, DNB [sic]
Ann BARR, daur, 14, bookfolder, b Glasgow, LKS
James BARR, son, 10, scholar, b Glasgow, LKS
Alxr. McKINLAY, lodger, u/m 30, calenderer, b Bonhill, DNB
John SHAW, lodger, u/m 30, engine smith, b England
--
The reason i asked if Ann had married a Hugh CALDWELL in 1866 was because of this 1881 census.
The IGI shows the mother of children Sarah (14) & Ann (12) as ANN, and not JANE.
Maybe she just changed her name, but occupation is still a bookfolder.
--
1881 Census Place: Govan, Lanark, Scotland
Dwelling: 10 So Coburg St 1/2
Source: FHL Film 0203674 GRO Ref Volume 644-12 EnumDist 14 Page 20
Ann BARR W 72 F Dumbarton, Dunbarton, Scotland Rel: Head
Jane CALDWELL W 34 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Bookfolder
Sarah CALDWELL 14 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Grand Daur Occ: Bookfolder
Ann CALDWELL 12 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Grand Daur Occ: Scholar
James HUNTER U 32 M Belfast, Ireland Rel: Lodger Occ: Police Constable
--
It looks the same ANN BARR in both censuses; but is she Ann GILLIES?
She will be if Ann/Jane CALDWELL m/s BARR is the daur of your Robert BARR & Ann GILLIES.
What does the DC of your Ann BARR m/s GILLIES say?
Address where died? Informant? Parents? etc.
Jack

[AnneMT]

Just realised I had not submitted this post two days ago. Must have previewed and forgotten to submit. Stupid woman !!!!

Hi Anne,
There's a very good chance there will be an Ann BARR aged abt 60 in the Gorbals area 1871.

So far I have found my Barr family in following census
1841 at Kirk St.,
1851 at 129 Main St.,
1861 could not find the entry for 31 Centre Street. on SP. Did you find them elsewhere??
1871 at 47 Cumberland Lane, with son James, aged, though occupation differs from his marr. cert.
1881 - 10 So. Coburg St., (Have CDs for 1881 census, but it wasn't on these, found the details on SP)

The reason i asked if Ann had married a Hugh CALDWELL in 1866 was because of this 1881 census.
The IGI shows the mother of children Sarah (14) & Ann (12) as ANN, and not JANE.
Maybe she just changed her name, but occupation is still a bookfolder.

With three Annes in family, Anne Caldwell may have been called Janet, to avoid confusion. Though she is noted as Widow on census, when daughter Sarah Caldwell married Alexander McKenzie in 1889, Hugh Caldwell was not declared deceased on marr. entry. Possible this was a mistake, but groom's father is shown as deceased

What does the DC of your Ann BARR m/s GILLIES say?
Address where died? Informant? Parents? etc.
Jack

As yet have not found Anne Barr's death cert. If this is definitely her on 1881 census, then gives date as bit later than I thought - she was not mentioned as deceased on son James marr. cert in 1878. Until I get this info, not a lot I can prove.

Now with upload of OPR images I have a couple of possible births for her, one of which was in 1807 in Dumbarton, which agrees with 1871 and 1881 census. Parents in this case were Donald Gillies /Margaret Chrystal.

Will I break down this wall, I wonder?? Thanks again for your help