The Murray Clan .....

Helen G · Post by **Helen G** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:21 pm

Hello All,

I was looking for some help with my Irish connections and was wondering if anyone is able to help me in my quest.

My GGGgrandfather Allan Murray was Born in Londonderry about 1814 he was married to Helen Kelly married Abt 1825 also born in Londonderry ( I think). They travelled to Greenock sometime between 4th September 1860 when thier eldest daughter married (as states on thier children's birth certificate's) and after thier son married on the 14th September 1866 in Glasgow.

Allan and Helen had 8 children that I can find namely

Matilda born abt 1842 married James Lucas 4 September 1860 Londonderry

Henry born abt 1844
James born abt 1845
Charles born abt 1847
Thomas Born abt 1849 married Mary Burns 14 September 1866 Glasgow
Catherine Born abt 1853
Richard Born abt 1855
Margaret Born abt 1859

The children's years of birth are a guesstimate, I have found all the death and marriage notices of the children and thier children from a very valuable source namely the McLean Museum in Greenock as they have a excellent historic library and they have the local newspaper (Greenock Telegraph dating back to about 1860) on microfilm from this I went onto SP and traced the certificates themselves.

I would be very interested as to why the family decided to come over from Ireland. I think that the potato famine years were between 1822 and 1845 so I ruled that out for the reason of their departure. I am lead to believe that a lot of catholics left Ireland about this time.

On Helen's death certificate it lists her parents names, sadly on Allan's death certificate his parents names are not listed and have come up against a brickwall.

I do know that the great fire in 1922 destroyed a large amount of Irish records. I was wondering if there was any way of tracing my family further.

Any help would be appreciated at this time, and thank you in advance.

Kind regards
Helen

Post by **marilyn morning** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 11:42 pm

Hi Helen,

Here are some links you may be interesed in reading?

http://talkingscot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6920

http://talkingscot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6923

http://talkingscot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5555

Regards
Marilyn

Post by **marilyn morning** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:03 am

Sorry Helen, I didn't see your previous post.

Helen wrote

Hi All,

I am unsure if this is the correct place that Ihave posted this reply as I am a novice on this site. I found TS after I had contacted SP with a query that I had with regards to on of the queries I had searched on. In my correspondance a very nice lady directed me to this site as I had a query with regards to Irish relatives. I have seen that Liz is arranging a seminar. I have been in touch with Liz and am very keen to participate in this event as I have exhausted my lineup to the current date in the West Coast of Scolatnd. I am having difficulty trying to trace my Irish Ancestry on my fathers side they came from Londonderry sometime between September 1860 and September 1865. The topics on this site makevery interesting reading. I thought I would like to participate with people of the same interest.

Cheers
Helen

Regards
Marilyn

P.S. I'm also researching Dixon, mine are from Kilbirnie. Hugh Dixon is my gg gf listed in the 1881 census he's living on Main Street as a hawker. Ring any bells?

IanS · Post by **IanS** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:42 am

Hi Helen, In Griffiths Valuation (heads of households) of abt 1858 for Londonderry/Derry there is only one Allan Murray. He is a tenant in the Townland of Gobnascale, Parish of Clondermot. This Townland is east of the Foyle and City of Derry. If you go to Multimap, get Londonderry, find Waterside which is east of the river, then go south on the map .(Scale 1:50,000), you should see it quite clearly.

If you want the details from G.V. let me know.

Helen G · Post by **Helen G** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 3:54 pm

Hi Ian,
Thanks very much for that, I do not know how to find anything on G.V. I have looked on numerous occasions and have not found anything (I think that is because I am unsure how it works). Also with the map that you spoke about where will I find this.

Thanks
Helen

IanS · Post by **IanS** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:34 pm

Hi Helen, have sent you a P.M.

Regarding G.V. the following is a very good free site

http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths.php

However, although this is a very good prelimanary step, it won't give house, land, landlord or neighbour details.

Sooooo! I use http://www.irishorigins.com/

It's a paying site, but usually a short subscription is enough, depending on how many Irish lines you've got of course

For Griffiths to be usfeful to you , you need to have a family member, who is old enough to be a ''head of household'' OR old enough to be renting a piece of land, at the time of G.V. for that particular area.

Now, depending on the name you are researching, and if you know what County or Parish they came from, the results could range from 0-hundreds. So it may be very helpful, or not at all!!

In your case, there is only one Allan Murray in the whole of Derry/Londonderry. If Allan was still alive at time of childrens marriages, this is likely to be ''yours''.

Re-Map. Get back to you shortly.

O.k. click the following link

http://www.multimap.com/map/places.cgi? ... ondonderry

Click no. 1

Click Waterside, and at scale 1:50,000 Gobnascale should be abt. 1 inch south of Waterside.

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:35 pm

Hi Helen and Ian

Can I just pop in here to ask one teensy tiny question answer to which has always managed to elude me.....

I know that the Griffith Valuation was taken over a range of years. I always assumed this was because Mr Griffith did the whole thing himself and it took time to work from one end of the country to the other. (Please correct that if it's wrong!) Anyhow....how can I find out a narrower time that the valuation was done in let's say Connor Parish, Antrim??? It would make a huge difference to knowing if the families I find there are more likely to be the ones I want them to be....(if that makes sense

)

Best wishes
Jean

IanS · Post by **IanS** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:21 pm

Hi Jean, I think Mr.Griffiths had a team to do the legwork. It was originally seemingly started in 1847 and done by Barony, then changed to Poor Law Union ab. 1852 . Therefore each Poor law Union or Barony should have the same date. I'm sure there is somewhere on web, (without having to subscribe) that has the dates. Will post as soon as I find it.

When you find someone on Irish origins that you think may be yours, there is also a link that tells you when it went to print, which is ,I think, what you are looking for.

P.S. Connor Parish, Co.Antrim (Ballmena Poor Law Union) was Jan 1862

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:46 pm

Thank you Ian

You made that sound so easy

Will have to have a wee wander about and see if I can do it for myself now. Unfortunately Jan 1862 is a wee bit too late methinks

Best wishes
Jean

IanS · Post by **IanS** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:08 pm

Hi Jean, The very condensed explanation above might sound easy, but as anyone knows who has tried tracing their Irish ancestors, its lots of [-o< and

with abit of

thrown in. When you do get a small result

it's all been worthwhile.

P.S. Griffiths was slightly more complicated in that there were 3 altogether, inc. revisions etc. over a 5 yr period, but I'm no even going there! For anyone interested there are some excellent Irish sites which will explain much better than I!