Interesting discovery after reading a Will

[emanday]

I've just downloaded the Will of one of my rellies. In it he instructs that his estate is to be converted into property and investments, the ownership and income from which to be equally divided between his three daughters (I thought he only had two). The two girls I knew about are both grown up, one married, but the youngest daughter is only 2 years old at the time. She's not to get all her inheritance till her 25th birthday, but a proportion of the income from her share is to be used to maintain her and fund her education.

Knowing that the mother was dead at the time of the older daughter's marriage, I searched for wee Emily's birth to find out who her mother was. No luck with that, or finding her Dad's 2nd marriage, but did find her DC. She died at 16 years old of consumption, her father is shown as such and is the informant, but she is shown as illegitimate and her mother's name is not given

Anyone come across this before? I wonder why he excluded her mother's name?

[SarahND]

I've certainly come across records that exclude the father's name. One I was looking at carefully excluded it on birth, marriage and death records. Maybe she didn't know (and just maybe her mother wasn't sure

On the other hand, my gg grandmother was illegitimate and only her father's name is ever given. It's driving me crazy The story she told her grandchildren was that her mother died shortly after her birth and she was brought up by her father and a "housekeeper". I'm not sure whether she herself even knew her mother's surname, but she was supposed to have been named for her, so we have a tentative first name-- that's all. And no place of birth (and no name for the "housekeeper" either...)

Regards,
Sarah

[DavidWW]

I've just downloaded the Will of one of my rellies. In it he instructs that his estate is to be converted into property and investments, the ownership and income from which to be equally divided between his three daughters (I thought he only had two). The two girls I knew about are both grown up, one married, but the youngest daughter is only 2 years old at the time. She's not to get all her inheritance till her 25th birthday, but a proportion of the income from her share is to be used to maintain her and fund her education.

Knowing that the mother was dead at the time of the older daughter's marriage, I searched for wee Emily's birth to find out who her mother was. No luck with that, or finding her Dad's 2nd marriage, but did find her DC. She died at 16 years old of consumption, her father is shown as such and is the informant, but she is shown as illegitimate and her mother's name is not given

Anyone come across this before? I wonder why he excluded her mother's name?

The only way that this could have been legal in Scots law was if his wife was deceased when he made his latter will and testament. If she had been alive she was entitled to 1/3rd of the moveable estate, with 1/3rd to the children, the "bairns' part", and the remaining 1/3rd, the "deid's part", according to the wishes of the deceased (½/½ if there were no kids),

The rules on land and buildings "heritable property" depend on the date involved.

Before 1868, testaments could transfer only moveable property (money, clothes, household goods etc), while land and buildings could be inherited either by the separate retour (or services of heirs) procedure or by the mechanism of a trust disposition and settlement (sometimes called a 'deed of settlement'). Unless otherwise provided, the eldest son automatically inherited the heritable property.

It was very common for the widow to be granted a "life rent" of property.

Between 1868 and 1964 a Scottish testament could transfer both moveable and heritable property.

David

[emanday]

As I said, the mother of his two older adult daughters was already dead. Wee Emily must have been "made" after that, and obviously NOT to a legal spouse otherwise why would he have completely obliterated her mother's name from the DC.

I'd love to find her birth, but my chances are likely very slim, unless he did acknowledge her at that time. Even if he did, would she be registered under his or her mother's surname?

[DavidWW]

As I said, the mother of his two older adult daughters was already dead. Wee Emily must have been "made" after that, and obviously NOT to a legal spouse otherwise why would he have completely obliterated her mother's name from the DC.

I'd love to find her birth, but my chances are likely very slim, unless he did acknowledge her at that time. Even if he did, would she be registered under his or her mother's surname?

Regardless of the circumstances of wee Emily's birth, her inheritance rights were just the same as her half-siblings; as regards wee Emily's mother's rights, if any, you'd have to ask someone much more expert in Scottish testamentary law than I am.............


As to the registration of the birth, it all depends on who turned up at the Registrar's office, - the mother (or other informant, e.g. the grannie), or that person plus the faither as, unless there was dissembling regarding the existence of a marriage (far from unknown), - and remember that could have been regular or irregular, - the only way that the father's name could appear in the register entry was if he attended the act of registration along with the mother (or whoever was substituting for her) and signed the register along with the mother (or whoever........).

There could always, of course, have been a subsequent Sheriff Court paternity action that could have led to an RCE entry.

David

[emanday]

So, what do you reckon, David?

Basically, does that mean that without her mother's name I'm not likely to get any further with Emily. She was certainly not registered with his name as far as the OPR records go. Obviously, he did, at a later date, acknowledge her as his daughter, but what are my chances of finding out?

[DavidWW]

So, what do you reckon, David?

Basically, does that mean that without her mother's name I'm not likely to get any further with Emily. She was certainly not registered with his name as far as the OPR records go. Obviously, he did, at a later date, acknowledge her as his daughter, but what are my chances of finding out?

Initial reaction, - subject always to a considered reaction, - is that unless you know exactly when and where she was born, you may never be able to solve the situation. Given that knowledge, it is always possible, on a visit to NRH in Edinburgh, to look at the last fiche(s) for a registration district, where there is an alphabetical index of the records in the register; and in this case, I'd be guessing that Emily was not a frequently occurring given name.

Without such info??, .... Ancestry current and future Scottish census indexes, which can be searched on given name alone, - along with the info that you have on age??........... (never mind census records for her father, should she also be in the household, but then I'm not clear what dates we're talking in relation to the open censuses).

Emily's death record?

David

[AnneM]

Hi

If I'm getting your dates at all right I don't think that at that time an illegitimate child would have had any rights in her father's estate at all. However I'd need to check up on that to be sure. As for her mother, she certainly would have had no rights whatsoever provided she was not married to the father of the child. When i have a mo I'll check on the daughter's rights though I doubt if she had any.

At least her father tried to do the decent thing by her.

What dates are we looking at?

Anne

[emanday]

Emily died, aged 16, on 16 December 1870, making her birth c1854. Her father's Will was dated 3 March 1869, by which time the daughter Margaret, was already married. Both his other two daughters were born c1844 and c1845, so they were only children when Emily was born.

Now there's a thing! Your questions are helping me build a better idea here. Both his other daughters were born in the West Indies where he was a shipbuilder/owner, but I don't know where Emily was born. He was living in Singapore at the time he made his will, but was obviously back in Scotland to sign that document. One assumes that he came back and forth on business. Maybe wee Emily was the result of one of these visits, sans spouse?

Oh, and another thing I should have mentioned - Her death was informed by a John Burgess, Uncle-in-Law, so her father may well have been back out of the country. There is certainly no SP DC for him.

Although it will probably turn out that I will just have to accept Emily's existance without really knowing her complete heritage, it would be nice to put closure on her very short life.

[emanday]

I've just noticed something odd about this will.

It has obviously all been written in the same hand, apart of course, from the main and witness signatures - I thought!

Emily's name is actually written in her father's hand! I've compared the surname on it against his signature and it is a dead match.

Any ideas what this would have been done for?

Added later - I've uploaded both sections in a single image. It is the same handwriting, isn't it?

http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... ?pos=-1024

Gallery URL added - AndrewP