Ms. Mary ?

Post by **marilyn morning** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:56 am

Hi,

Can anyone with better eye sight then mine

tell me what my ggggg gm Mary Morning's maiden name and middle initial is?

http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... ?pos=-1070

Regards
Marilyn

Post by **AndrewP** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:20 am

Hi Marilyn,

I will go for

Mary K Morning
M.S. McMillan

All the best,

AndrewP

Post by **paddyscar** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:21 am

Hi Marilyn:

Looks like McMillan or McMillar to me. Similar to the other 'McM' names on the page.

Frances

Post by **emanday** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:27 am

I'm with Andrew on that, but nothing on IGI to back it up.

Have you tried looking for his birth/baptism?

Russell · Post by **Russell** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:36 am

Hi Marilyn

Defintutely Mary McMillan. No middle initial at all.

My first thoughts were 'Pity there's no address' then I realised that the old Elderslie has been totally covered over with a 1950's housing scheme.

second thought was 'If there was no address given for the top two witnesses why was the unfortunate Mrs McLellan (entry three) asked for her address'
I have a neighbour whose special interest is the railway line mentioned and he will be pleased to add to his knowledge of the line.

Russell

Post by **marilyn morning** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:43 am

Hi Andrew and Frances,

Gosh its a good thing I'm not transcriping records.

This is a good example of just how some transcription errors can happen. The ink appears to have bled, making it blurry to read, to me at least.

I thought her middle initial was a K, but I wasn't 100% sure? I could see the "Mc" but the rest was really difficult to read. And if I didn't know her married name was Morning, I would have transcriped it as Dowling? Now isn't everyone happy, I'm too busy on TalkingScot to volunteer to transcripe your family records.

Regards
Marilyn

Post by **marilyn morning** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:06 am

Hi Marilyn

Defintutely Mary McMillan. No middle initial at all.

My first thoughts were 'Pity there's no address' then I realised that the old Elderslie has been totally covered over with a 1950's housing scheme.

second thought was 'If there was no address given for the top two witnesses why was the unfortunate Mrs McLellan (entry three) asked for her address'
I have a neighbour whose special interest is the railway line mentioned and he will be pleased to add to his knowledge of the line.

Russell

Hi Russell,

After reading your comments, I went and dragged out my super high, powered, magnifying glass and turned on the brighest light in the house to review the document. This time, I can see that what I thought was a middle initial of "K" must actually be an "M" (a funny shaped M.) Plus its a very large O, which only added to my confusion. What I can cleary see

is the "ning"

Unfortunately, it appears that none of the address's that my Morning or Dixon family resided at, still exist? Here's an example of then and now.

13 McDowall http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... ?pos=-1076

15 & 17 McDowall http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... ?pos=-1075

13 McDowall Street, 2006 http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... ?pos=-1074

My ggg gf, Hugh Dixon is listed as living at 13 McDowall Street, Johnstone in the 1881 Census. He was a hawker, so I often wondered if he worked for the "Pawnbroker" on the lower level? I've no idea of the numbering system used at the time, so I'm not sure if the flats above the pawnbroker would have been numbered 13 McDowall Street, Flat #1, etc?

Hugh's daughter, Margaret Morning and her husband, Matthew Morning are listed as living at 19 McDowall Street in the 1881 Census.

Here in the USA, or in Rhode Island anyways

The odd numbers are on one side of the street and the even numbers on the other. Is it the same type of numbering system in Johnstone? Or should I say was it at the time?

Regards
Marilyn

Russell · Post by **Russell** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:23 am

Hi Marilyn

Your photo of 'the Steamie' would probably reflect the type of building in McDowall St in 1881. Single storied with living accommodation in the roof space. The Tenement building housing the pawnbrokers was probably built about the turn of the century (1900 - 1910 from its style).
Imagine McDowall St as a long row of single storey cottages. Since it was built pre-Post Office times numbering would most likely have been in sequence up one side of the street and back down the other side so that number 1 might face number 67 depending on the length of the street at that time. When they extended the street towards Kilbarchan they had to give it a different name (previously it was all called Kilbarchan road or similar) and the numbers for the next section would start at the join with McDowall St.
Streets developed after the postal service tended to be numbered, as you suggest, odd numbers one side, even numbers on t'other.

I doubt they would identify by number, the flats above the pawnbrokers as we do now. there was no need. The delivery men knew everybody in the area and exactly where they lived. The postman was probably a neighbour anyway. Its only with increased social mobility that small community feeling and knowledge has been lost.
Its great to have the old photographs! It gives a real 'feel' for how, as well as where, they lived.

Russell
P.S. Even 'the Steamie' has gone since the last photo was taken

P.P.S. a quick edit - My wife indignantly informed me that although it often 'looks' closed it is still open for business.
and Liz might object if she put her quilt in for cleaning last week and thinks she can't get it back !

Post by **marilyn morning** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:54 am

Hi Marilyn

Your photo of 'the Steamie' would probably reflect the type of building in McDowall St in 1881. Single storied with living accommodation in the roof space. The Tenement building housing the pawnbrokers was probably built about the turn of the century (1900 - 1910 from its style).
Imagine McDowall St as a long row of single storey cottages. Since it was built pre-Post Office times numbering would most likely have been in sequence up one side of the street and back down the other side so that number 1 might face number 67 depending on the length of the street at that time. When they extended the street towards Kilbarchan they had to give it a different name (previously it was all called Kilbarchan road or similar) and the numbers for the next section would start at the join with McDowall St.
Streets developed after the postal service tended to be numbered, as you suggest, odd numbers one side, even numbers on t'other.

I doubt they would identify by number, the flats above the pawnbrokers as we do now. there was no need. The delivery men knew everybody in the area and exactly where they lived. The postman was probably a neighbour anyway. Its only with increased social mobility that small community feeling and knowledge has been lost.
Its great to have the old photographs! It gives a real 'feel' for how, as well as where, they lived.

Russell
P.S. Even 'the Steamie' has gone since the last photo was taken
P.P.S. a quick edit - My wife indignantly informed me that although it often 'looks' closed it is still open for business.
and Liz might object if she put her quilt in for cleaning last week and thinks she can't get it back !

Hello Russell,

First of all, I'm sorry for the delay with this reply. I've been feeling rather poorly the past week or so and this reply required me to hold my head up for more then a few minutes at a time.

Its just some short term virus.

When I posted the links to the photos, what I didn't realize was that the caption below the picture was too tiny to be read. So here's what it said

http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... ?pos=-1076

Pawnbroker. The distinctive three balls signify the premises of the pawnbroker. The three people here are standing at the entrance to the business of Gavin. H. Robertson which was located at 13 McDowall Street. Mrs. David Robertson also had a pawnbroking business at 19 High Street. Her residence in the town was "Duncraggan" in Overton Road. These pawnbrokers would have been used by the people of Johnstone when they required ready cash on articles such as clothes or jewellery, which they had decided to pawn. Such a situation would especially have occurred during times of unemployment, when great hardship was experienced due to the absence of a regular wage.

http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... ?pos=-1075

McDowall Street.

A small group, including a barefooted boy, gather round a donkey in the scene from the 1900's. The pole of the barber's shop contrasts with the symbol of the pawnbroker's on the opposite side. In 1853 the Johnstone Grand Industrial Exhibition was held in a cotton mill in McDowall Street. This building was later converted into houses and for a considerable period was known as the "Exhibition Land." It was demolished in 1931 when tenements were built on the site, these being 15 and 17 McDowall Street.

Russell if 13, 15 and 17 McDowall was convereted into houses after 1853, then would the "Steamie" be one of the houses dating back to the address of Hugh Dixon, listed in the 1881 Census? Or am I confused?

If my ggg gf, Hugh Dixon lived above the Steamie along with his family of 8, it was one tiny living space for a family.

Regards
Marilyn

Oh I certainly hope Liz was able to pick up here Dry Cleaning.