Bain /Kennedy Can you help me find them from here in Oz?....

[Brenda]

Hello,

Sarah Kennedy , born abt 1836, Llandward ? New Monkland.
Parents JOHN KENNEDY & HELEN BAIN, married James McLean 17-10-1856.

I just cannot find anything on her mother Helen Bain, and would appreciate any suggestions

Thanks

Brenda

[JustJean]

Hi Brenda

Here's the things that pop into my mind in no particular order!!

1. Have you allowed for Helen to be found under Ellen or indeed have you allowed for wildcards in searching on her name?

2. Does the Marriage in 1856 show her as mother to be still living or deceased?

3. Contingent on your reply to #2....if she is dead in 1856 then unless she happened to die in 1855 there are no death registers as such so the task of finding her becomes even more challenging. If she is living then if she died later on in Scotland it's quite effective to search based on Maiden Name and Married Name to find a death for her.

4. Have you isolated the family on the 1841 and 1851 census returns? If Helen did die before statutory registration then you may be able to determine a narrower time for this based on which census records she appears in. This can be complicated because the 1841 does not show relationships but hopefully she will be found with a baby named Sarah about 5 years old.

That's it for now. If anything else pops up I'll yell. Please let us know how you're making out.....and how many of these things you've already considered!

Best wishes
Jean

[Brenda]

Hi Jean

Thanks for the prompt reply to my query.
No I haven't checked the Census, all I'm going on is what's in the LDS site. I'm a novice at both Genealogy and computers so I'm making lots of errors.

Brenda

[Russell]

Hi Brenda

Just to add to Jean's suggestions.
I explored some of the names you gave and they only appeared on IGI. I presume that is where you gathered your information.
A search on Scotlandspeople did not turn up any of the names within the dates you gave.
The entries on IGI were all Submissions which are only extrapolations which a Latter Day Saints researcher has made based often on inadequate data.
Only Extracts are likely to be completely (or almost!) accurate as they have been drawn directly from the official records - Statutory or Old Parish (OPR)records. If the number on the lower left hand side is prefixed by a C or M then it represents a Birth, or, more commonly a Christening; or a Marriage.

The IGI records have not been gathered to benefit us genealogists although they can be amazingly helpful. They are for some purpose related to the LDS church.

Russell

[JustJean]

Hi Jean

Thanks for the prompt reply to my query.
No I haven't checked the Census, all I'm going on is what's in the LDS site. I'm a novice at both Genealogy and computers so I'm making lots of errors.

Brenda

Hi Brenda

The very first rule of genealogy....GENEALOGISTS DO NOT MAKE ERRORS!! You stop your blushing right now girl!! You've done nothing wrong and before you're done filling in your family tree you'll be amazed at the things you'll have learned....both about the family and about the ways and means of finding out information. If you want more help you have but to ask so don't feel stuck and afraid to bug everyone....but you'll have much more to be enthused about when you find the records on your own...with some helpful hints along the way of course.

Best wishes
Jean

PS...and you're so right to start with the IGI. Don't forget that there are alot of early census records available through FreeCEN too (which is free to search on like the IGI)l. When you resort to Ancestry or ScotlandsPeople you have to pay....so always use the freebies to your advantage first!!

[Brenda]

Thanks Russell


There's only 2 possible marriages on the IGI , one giving her name as Banns, on Aug 12th 1828 @ Girvan.

Found a record of the birth of Sarah Kennedy , [ daughter of John & Helen Bain ] who married my husband's G grandfather, James McLean 17-10-1856

It's all too hard , I think I'll give up.

[Russell]

I Totally agree with Jean, Brenda.

It takes time to learn the intricacies of the different data bases and discover the joys of using wildcards to unearth the sometimes unbelievable spellings that have been recorded.
Use as much of the free information as you can before you start to spend anything on downloading certificates.
You will be amazed how quickly you will learn.
Novices, after all are just undeveloped experts

Russell

[Russell]

Back again Brenda

I wondered if you have gathered all the information about the later generations of the family ?
Scottish records usually allow you to discover who the person's parents were and its important to work back through each generation a step at a time. that way you confirm the details you have gathered before going further back.
Sometimes you have to gather information about brothers and sisters before you find that vital clue that brings you back to the main line.

Don't you give up before you give us a chance to help you find these elusive folk.
Its fun, once you stop doubting yourself. Why do you think I sit up here at 2 o'clock in the morning

Russell

[Jack]

Hi Brenda,
If these are your James McLEAN's & Sarah KENNEDY's children, then it would be worthwhile getting their BCs from SP.
This to see when and where James & Sarah married - and parents' details.
(Martha 1863, Sarah 1870 & Christina 1871 should be easiest to find - but watch Christina may have been registered 1872)
I hope they are the right children because this 1881 census is them - mother Sarah as born Ayrshire...
(1861 Dalmellington census also says Ayrshire - ie if correct family)
Still a lot to do to find them in earlier censuses.
--
HELEN MCLEAN - Birth: 11 OCT 1856 New Monkland, Lanark, Scotland
JANE DUNCAN MCLEAN - Birth: 28 FEB 1858 New Monkland, Lanark, Scotland
JOHN MCLEAN - Birth: 07 DEC 1860 Dalmellington, Ayr, Scotland
-------MCCLEAN - Female Birth: 10 FEB 1862 Dalmellington, Ayr, Scotland
MARTHA MC LEAN - Birth: 18 JUN 1863 Dalmellington, Ayr, Scotland
JOHN KENNEDY MC LEAN - Birth: 23 AUG 1866 Dalmellington, Ayr, Scotland
JAMES MCLEAN - Birth: 10 MAR 1868 Dalmellington, Ayr, Scotland
SARAH MCLEAN - Birth: 19 MAR 1870 New Monkland, Lanark, Scotland
CHRISTINA MCLEAN - Birth: 25 DEC 1871 Dalmellington, Ayr, Scotland
ROBERT MCLEAN - Birth: 13 MAY 1874 Dalmellington, Ayr, Scotland
JAMES MCLEAN ~ 1879 New Monkland
WILLIAM MCLEAN ~ 1881 New Monkland
--
1881 Census Place: New Monkland, Lanark, Scotland
Dwelling: Roughrigg Peesweep Rd 71
Source: FHL Film 0203697 GRO Ref Volume 651-2 EnumDist 6 Page 32
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
James MC LANE M 47 M Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Coal Miner
Sarah MC LANE M 45 F Ladykirk, Ayr, Scotland Rel: Wife
John MC LANE U 14 M Dunmellinton, Ayr, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Coal Miner
Sarah MC LANE U 11 F Airdrie, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar
Christina MC LANE U 8 F Dunmellinton, Ayr, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar
Robert MC LANE U 6 M Dunmellinton, Ayr, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Scholar
James MC LANE U 2 M New Monkland, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Son
William MC LANE U 3mos M New Monkland, Lanark, Scotland
--
Jack
--
ps, added later.
These might be worth following up?
Birthplaces are a bit out, but they're the only possibles i can see at present.
This wife Ellen may be a 2nd wife? If not, then her age is well out in the censuses?
--
1841 census 495 Ed 3 pp 12-13 (Cumbernauld)
South Side of Main Street.
Jno. KENNEDY, 45, Labourer, b Ireland
Ellen KENNEDY, 30, --------------b Ireland
Alex. KENNEDY, 20, Labourer, b Scotland
Jno. KENNEDY, 10, ---------------b Scotland
Ellen KENNEDY, 8, ----------------b Scotland
Robert KENNEDY, 6, -------------b Scotland
Sarah KENNEDY, 4, --------------b Scotland
Ann KENNEDY, 2, ----------------b Scotland
--
1851 census 651 (642) Ed 11 p 21 (New Monkland)
Walston.
John KENNEDY, head, marr, 60, Agr. Labourer, b Ireland
Helen KENNEDY, wife, marr, 51, ------------------b Girvan, AYR
John KENNEDY, son, 22, Miner (iron), b Girvan, AYR
Helen KENNEDY, daur, 18, Weaver (muslin), b Girvan, AYR
Robert KENNEDY, son, 17, Miner, b Girvan, AYR
Sarah KENNEDY, daur, 14, Weaver, b Girvan, AYR
Rebecca KENNEDY, daur, 9-------b Cumbernauld, DNB
--
1861 census 586 Ed 1 p 15 (Dalmellington)
Lathan Hill, No 7.
James McLEAN, head, marr, 35, Iron Stone Miner, b New Mill, FIF
Sarah McLEAN, wife, marr, 25, ------------------------b Ayr, AYR
Andrew McLEAN, son, 2, ------------------------------b Dalmellington, AYR [is this the John born 1860?]
Alexander ROSS, boarder, 42, Iron Stone Miner, b Lochwinnoch, RFW
William ROSS, boarder, 15, Iron Stone Miner, b ?Birnie? LKS
Daniel McDONALD, boarder, 40, Iron Stone Miner, b Campbeltown, ARL
--

[JustJean]

Hi all

I'll tell you this much.....there is a marriage of a Helen Kennedy a couple years later in the same parish as Sarah's is found and the parents names match. (Not only that but the surname of her hubbie matches that of Sarah's hubbie....certainly worth a look see in case sisters married brothers!) So basically.... I think the 1841 and 1851 Kennedy families are spot on!! (but then you already knew that ....nice work just like always Jack =D> )

Best wishes
Jean