help finding details of james france

Carolann · Post by **Carolann** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:29 pm

hi

Can I ask for help from some of you experts regarding James France.

What I know of him is - James France DOB, DOM and DOD not known.
Not much to go on. However he married a Janet Taylor who was born around 1793 probably in the Denny area but not to sure. She died on 06th Feb 1865 in Greenock and was aged 72.. They had a daughter Janet who was born on 2 Aug 1816 in Denny. According to Death Cert for daugher and wife James France was a shoemaker.

I have looked at census but can't trace him.

Cheers

Carolann

PS James had died by the time his wife Janet died in 1865.

Post by **paddyscar** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:48 pm

Hi Carolann:

Perhaps you could let us know where you've searched for him - IGI, OPRs, SP and which years of the census you've checked - it might eliminate a lot of duplication of effort.

Frances

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:54 pm

Hi Carolann
There seem to be three James France in the Stirling area in 1841 census aged between 40-60. You may have checked all these already and maybe none of them are him?
Do you have an OPR entry for Janet who you mentioned was born on 2 Aug 1816 in Denny? Does it give any clues at all - place of residence, occupation that sort of thing? On IGI (an extract) she seems to be Jean, but Jean, Jane & Janet are often interchangeable:

JEAN FRANCE Female
Event(s):
Birth: 02 AUG 1816 Denny, Stirling, Scotland

Parents:
Father: JAMES FRANCE
Mother: JANET TAYLOR

If Janet Taylor was still around until 1865, have you traced her back through the census years to see if she is mentioned as a wife or widow. That may give some clues as to when James died.

Best wishes
Lesley

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:46 pm

Hi Carolann
I suspect these, from IGI batch C114764, might be from the same family too:

EUPHEMIA FRANCE Female
Christening: 28 OCT 1821 Denny, Stirling, Scotland
Father: JAMES FRANCE

AGNES FRANCE Female
Christening: 04 APR 1824 Denny, Stirling, Scotland
Father: JAMES FRANCE

CHRISTIAN JEROME FRANCE Female
Christening: 22 APR 1827 Denny, Stirling, Scotland
Father: JAMES FRANCE

So from that we can perhaps hazard a guess that your James was still around in 1826, if it is the same James. There is no mother's name given with these births, but a look at the OPR may confirm his occupation, or even a place of residence if it is mentioned and that would give a bit more to cross reference with.

Best wishes
Lesley

apanderson · Post by **apanderson** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:17 am

Hi Carolann,

Adding to the info that Lesley found:

According to the British Vital Records (a CD version of IGI), Janet Taylor is listed as mother to Jean France born in Denny, 2nd August 1816.

It would appear there was another James France in Denny at the same time. His wife is listed as Mary Fraser. The children listed as theirs are:

Alexander born 24th October 1816 and James born 10th July 1819 (christened 8th August 1819)

Euphemia (1821), Agnes (1824) & Christian Jerome (1827) as Lesley said, don't have a mother listed so they could be the children of either couple.

There are quite a few Frances buried in Denny Cemetery, possibly subsequent generations? The following is a list from MI's

FRANCE, Annie, died 23.10.1895 aged 7 weeks
FRANCE, Bertha (nee Anderson) died 19.06.1980 aged 79 years
FRANCE, Daniel , died 26.08.1986, aged 89 years
FRANCE, Elizabeth (nee Wyness), died 03.03.1939 aged 41 years
FRANCE, Elizabeth (married name Kerrigan), died 24.08.1913 aged 75 years
FRANCE, George, died 14.10.1964 aged 77 years
FRANCE, George, died 07.12.1912 aged 35 years
FRANCE, Jamesina (nee Wyness), died 26.01.1969 aged 69 years
FRANCE, Lizzie (married name Cameron), died 21.06.1988 aged 94 years
FRANCE, Mary (married name Wilson), died 04.08.1953 aged 75 years
FRANCE, William, died 22.08.1892 aged 6y 10m

All the dates and years etc., are what I think they are - sometimes on the older stones you have to make a guess based on the rest of the info on the inscription.

If you want the full MI's as they appear on the stones, send me a PM with your personal e-mail address and I'll send them on + photos of the individual stones.

I looked in the pre-1855 MI Books for Denny (and other local graveyards) to see if I could find any earlier France MI's but they would only be listed there if they had a stone and unfortunately, there weren't any.

Anne

trish1 · Post by **trish1** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:59 am

This is given as one family in 1841
1841 Denny Stirlingshire Address Fankertown Parish Number 476
James France 56 occupation P M Not born in County
Mary France 54
Euphemia 18
Ann 16
Christian 14
Elizabeth 12

John ? 20
Helen Scott 5

So Euphemia and Christian belong to James and Mary - and Ann may be an error transcription for Agnes

There is another James in Denny
1841 Denny Stirlingshire Address Haggs Parish Number 476
James France 40 ShoeM born in County
living with
John and Isabella McCullock and their children

Trish

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:53 am

hi Carolann & Trish
Well done Trish!

There is another James in Denny
1841 Denny Stirlingshire Address Haggs Parish Number 476
James France 40 ShoeM born in County
living with
John and Isabella McCullock and their children

Well, that one certainly looks more like it might be him - with an occupation of a shoemaker.

Best wishes
Lelsey

Carolann · Post by **Carolann** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:01 pm

Hi All

Thank you for replying. Looked out some more information which I forgot I had.

The 1841 census in which James France is in Denny and a shoemaker its possible it is him. His daughter Jane France b 2/8/1816 married Charles Frederick 26/2/1836 in Greenock
Was wondering where his wife Janet France was at the census and she was in Drygate Glasgow and was aged 45 at census. The 1951 census shows her in Greenock with daughter and son in law.. She is widowed by that time and aged 59. Therefore James must have died between 1841 and 1951 and will probably be unable to trace him.

I think he must have died in the Stirlingshire area why I think that I don't know.

Have looked most sites for marriage for James and Janet Taylor but no trace at what I can find.

Thanks for your help.

Carolann

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:59 pm

Hi Carolann

Therefore James must have died between 1841 and 1951 and will probably be unable to trace him.

Not necessarily! There are two routes to explore - Monumental Inscriptions (MIs) and OPRs. You can see what deaths are available for what parish in the OPRs here:
http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/files/li ... 0to491.pdf
As you can see some parishes have deaths, some do not.
You would need to order up the films from your local LDS family history centre, or visit Stirling Library or Edinburgh to see them.

Denny doesn't have deaths, which is a bit of a nuisance, 'cos that would proably be my first port of call, but there may be MIs for Denny. He might have had a stone, but not everyone did....

Best wishes
Lesley

Carolann · Post by **Carolann** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:03 pm

Hi Lesley

Will give it a shot and thank you for helping

Carol