wildcard

[thomsos]

My that was a lot for me to digest, the only thing I would key in for Betty/Elizabeth would be just eli?abeth, I guess this is not enough!!

[DavidWW]

My that was a lot for me to digest, the only thing I would key in for Betty/Elizabeth would be just eli?abeth, I guess this is not enough!!

Anyone who thought that wildcards are simple needs to realise that while the concept itself is indeed simple, the application is not always straightforward.

Let's put it this way, - in terms of names in Scottish research in general and ScotlandsPeople in particular, I'm still learning

Every time that I think I've mastered the subject a new and different search will sometimes set me back in my heels, with my reaction being -"Hmmm...... hadn't thought of that before"

But don't please let that discourage anyone

As so many examples here on TalkingScot will demonstrate, it most often wasn't the case that great uncle Jimmie was kidnapped by aliens in a flying saucer, just that he was "hiding" behind a variant name in whatever record was involved, be that his own fault, or the fault of the registrar/enumerator, or a later transcriber/indexer.

Of course, that's not to say that great uncle Jimmie didn't want be found for one nefarious reason or another , or that flying saucers, particularly in the Falkirk/Denny area weren't involved.

If you do hit such a brickwall then there is nothing to substitute for some hard graft in terms of exploring name variants, - Black's for surnames, Dunkling for given names (there are many other books for both, but these are my "standard" sources); "playing" with wildcards on the 1881 census CDs to see what recorded variants come up; and using the Namex site at http://www.namethesaurus.com/Thesaurus/FAQ.htm#a7 - see at the very top "For a product demonstration please click here" ........ I can virtually guarantee you that you will discover one or more bl***y obvious in hindsight spelling variants which lead to your reacting "Now why didn't I think of that before?", but, until you have seen such possibilities you won't necessarily be designing the most effective wildcard searches.


And that's without even beginning to address the subject in terms of the pronunciation of a name in an accent with which the recorder was unfamiliar, - that can be both within Scotland as well as involving non-Scottish accents - my own classic examples being ARAPHADY for O'Rafferty ("soft" southern Irish accent), and, one of many such Ulster accent examples, - MICKLEVENNA for McIlvenny.

Sometimes wildcards will help here, sometimes not. If there is thought to be such a possible accent related aspect, then there's no substitute for finding someone from the relevant region/country, getting them to pronounce the name, and writing down what you hear.

There's a quite brilliant example of this in the last few days here on TalkingScot, where the Lithuanian surname Polockus was recorded instead as a middle name/surname combination of "Paul Lucas"

David

PS As for Eli[z/s]abeth, aye weel, ken, but, that wis jist a wee o' a windup , as, if the person cannie be found under Eli[z/s]abeth, then the following need to be considered.....

Bessie
Beth
Betty
Eliza
Elsbeth
Elsie
Elspeth
Lillibet
Lisa
Lizabeth
Isabel
Lisbeth
Elise
Lisa
Lise
Isabella
Betsy
Elspet
Bettina
Tety
Tetsy

So the real question is just how many separate wildcard searches are required to cover all those , and that's always assuming, of course, that the name involved bears some relation to the baptismal name. Most often the name in the record will be the original baptismal name or a close cognate, but, for example, what would have been the situation for future searchers if my mother's marriage and death had been recorded under "Bunty", as she was known by everyone, instead of "Edith" ?

David

[emanday]

Aw, David If that list is anything to go by, I've still got a lotta searches to do to find the DC for my Elizabeth Hamilton m.s. Rodger.

Better get the kettle on - this is going to be a marathon

[DavidWW]

Aw, David If that list is anything to go by, I've still got a lotta searches to do to find the DC for my Elizabeth Hamilton m.s. Rodger.

Better get the kettle on - this is going to be a marathon

Hi emanday

In such a situation, I'm afraid that it can be the case that there's no real alternative, but then, before you devote the possibly considerable effort required, do you have any evidence at all that she was known as other than Elisabeth or Elizabeth

David

[emanday]

Well, so far, I have two possible sets of parents (1810 & 1811) and the ages of four of her children (1835 - 1845) from the 1851 census. On this she is shown as Elizabeth.

Had a thought as I typed that in. Maybe later censuses will help me pinpoint when she possibly "disappears" and if her name is different in any of them.

[Russell]

David

Youre a wind up merchant with the 'Elizabeth' search

The namethesaurus site is fascinating and justified my opinion of Soundex I was interested though when I searched one of my names - Lapraik. I had found 36 of the 37 put forward by Namex but two additional ones which I had located , LWperick & LWperich came up with Metaphone.
Before anyone tells me I realise that I must have at least one duplicate in my Lapraik list

The whole naming thing is a topic for study in its own right.

Russell

[DavidWW]

David

Youre a wind up merchant with the 'Elizabeth' search

The namethesaurus site is fascinating and justified my opinion of Soundex I was interested though when I searched one of my names - Lapraik. I had found 36 of the 37 put forward by Namex but two additional ones which I had located , LWperick & LWperich came up with Metaphone.
Before anyone tells me I realise that I must have at least one duplicate in my Lapraik list

The whole naming thing is a topic for study in its own right.

Russell

Russell

Do we really want to get into Metaphone as well ?

David

[Russell]

NOooo!

But I'll hang onto the facility to browse possibilities before I do searches.
It won't tell me that Great Aunt Elizabeth was always called Bessie by her friends though - More's the pity

Russell

[DavidWW]

NOooo!

But I'll hang onto the facility to browse possibilities before I do searches.
It won't tell me that Great Aunt Elizabeth was always called Bessie by her friends though - More's the pity

Russell

For those who don't have the faintest understanding of where this thread is going .......

SOUNDEX was created to assist US clerks in tracking down surnames in US censuses for the purposes of establishing entitlement to a pension where surnames had often become corrupted (but only after passage through Ellis Island or similar, - it's a complete myth that names were altered at Ellis Island.) It has some use in genealogical research, but is plagued by high numbers of false positives and false negatives, i.e it will include many completely unconnected names, but also miss out some very closely connected names, especially if the initial letter varies.

METAPHONE and it's development "double metaphone" are algorithms to code English words (i.e. not specifically surnames, never mind Scottish surnames!) phonetically by reducing them to 16 consonant sounds, but developed from the point of view of phonetic experts, - not to say that such an approach isn't of use to genealogists.

NAMEX is a system developed only a few years ago with the specific aim of assisting genealogical researchers.

David

[LesleyB]

Hi all
To gain an understanding of what kind of names Soundex groups together, try putting a surname in here:
http://resources.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/soundexconverter
you'll be given both the Soundex code and the other names in that group.

Best wishes
Lesley