Symbol on IGI.....

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:45 am

Hi,

I can't recall what the brackets <> surrounding a surname mean

dennis

IanS · Post by **IanS** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:13 am

Dennis, If I remember correctly, and if your query concerns entries in the O.P.R., then it means there is a little more information on the original entry. Might be worthwhile ordering the film at your local L.D.S. centre, or at the very least phone and enquire. I believe I found this info at the beginning of the Scottish Parish Records C.D.

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:52 am

Hi Dennis and Ian
Whenever I've noticed the <> brackets on the IGI online it has always seemed to be on records which are submissions and I thought it meant the information was estimated. Of course, now I'm looking for an example I can't find a "live" one but for example in a birth it might say something like: James Dick, about 1745, <of Dunfermline> which I have taken to mean the submitter has not found a birth entry but has estimated the year and through some other information had come to the conclusion that he must have come from that area.

But, I've not read anything to this effect, just drawing conclusions...maybe the wrong ones!?

I'd be interested to find out.

Best wishes
Lesley

IanS · Post by **IanS** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:03 pm

Hi Lesley,

Yes I've seen that too on on a couple of submitted records, but don't know the answer to that.

BUT, as the records from submitters are usually also available on film, MAYBE there is also more info on the submitters film, e.g. address, age, parents, etc. maybe even where they got the info from, e.g. non-conformist church records.

So, therefore, it might be that the <> signs, in both respects mean more info available on the film.

The Scottish Parish Records C.D. available at the L.D.S. centres are used in a similar way to the 1881 census. There is a viewer already installed in the computer, and the appropriate disc selected. (in our case Scottish parish records), then installed in the disc drive and a menu comes up. Normally you just click on S.P.R. but one day I was footering about and being nosey, and clicked on a link that gave the definations of the signs etc.

Now as it was extremely useful to know, perchance should one of my ancestors have these signs beside their names, I THINK I remembered it correctly. Again, memory is a funny thing, and it's always best to double check

Maybe someone else who's due a visit to a centre soon, could find out for us. I won't be going till after Christmas.

BobG · Post by **BobG** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 3:14 am

To my knowledge, there is no published definitive explanation for the <----> used by submitters when they present their genealogical information to the IGI. In my experience, the “brackets” indicate “about” when used with a date and “possibly” when used with a location. These persons, dates and places will not be found in the OPRs. After researching a good number of these bracketed IGI entries (more than 20), I have come to the conclusion the submitter had based the entry on census information or some sort of personal, private information, such as a family bible.

Please note. I have close relatives who practice the Mormon religion. When I asked why a particular relations year of birth was bracketed they responed that it was their "best estimate".

Hope this helps.

BobG

IanS · Post by **IanS** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 9:08 am

Just to add to the confusion, here is an Extracted entry from the I.G.I. with the symbols<>

Ellen <McDonnell>
Female

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth: 05 MAY 1872 , , Ireland

Christening:
Death:
Burial:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: John McDonnell Family
Mother: Catherine Cullin

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

C701497 1872 0255854 Film NONE

Do you see the transcriber has only entered Ireland for place of birth? I suspect there was more info on the indexes for the quarter in 1872 which he/she transcribed, hence the<> (There would certainly have been more info on the cert).

If you click on the batch no. for this record, then hit search, you will see all the entries. It appears,at least 2 different people have transcribed this quarters index. Someone else has entered more geographical info.

The ones with only Ireland as the place of birth , all have <>

So, as in the Scottish Parish Records C.D. which are extracted entries from Old Parish Records, and the extracted entries from the I.G.I. from Civil Registration, it APPEARS as if there is more info available on the films.

Away to have a wee lie doon.

BobG · Post by **BobG** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:47 pm

You are correct Ian, however, Ellen’s record of birth is an extracted index reference not OPR church records. The key word is index. If you click “search” for the referenced batch #C701497, one will get all the 1872 indexed births in Ireland. The source #0255854 will bring up on your computer screen all the LDS films containing the Quarterly returns of births in Ireland, 1864-1955. The one containing Ellen’s indexed name is film#101049.
You can find the indexed BMDs for the years 1855 to 1956 for Scotland too…there are 4469 LDS films. The only information found on the Scotland indices is the year of registration, the person's name and place of birth.

My earlier post pertained only to the LDS OPR films which, for the most part, are the filmed church records of the Established Church of Scotland.

BobG

IanS · Post by **IanS** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:25 pm

BobG wrote:You are correct Ian, however, Ellen’s record of birth is an extracted index reference not OPR church records. The key word is index. If you click “search” for the referenced batch #C701497, one will get all the 1872 indexed births in Ireland. The source #0255854 will bring up on your computer screen all the LDS films containing the Quarterly returns of births in Ireland, 1864-1955. The one containing Ellen’s indexed name is film#101049.
You can find the indexed BMDs for the years 1855 to 1956 for Scotland too…there are 4469 LDS films. The only information found on the Scotland indices is the year of registration, the person's name and place of birth.

My earlier post pertained only to the LDS OPR films which, for the most part, are the filmed church records of the Established Church of Scotland.

BobG

Er, Yes Bob, I think there is some confusion here. Were you not in the previous post referring to 'submitted' records with the <>.
quote
To my knowledge, there is no published definitive explanation for the <----> used by submitters when they present their genealogical information to the IGI. In my experience, the “brackets” indicate “about” when used with a date and “possibly” when used with a location. These persons, dates and places will not be found in the OPRs.
end quote

I was saying that they DO appear on Extracted Records from I.G.I. too.
Ditto Old Parish |Records in Scotland on disc at L.D.S. centres.

Now whether they all mean the same is the point I thought we were discussing?

My point especially being that the extracted record in my example was
short. i.e. Ireland . Others on the same film were more explicit with perhaps Parish and County. Only the ones with <> were Ireland. Suggesting more info on index that has not been transcribed for I.G.I.

Am away for another wee lie doon

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:41 pm

Hi,

I have this one for a christening (as a male)

Margaret Ogilvie <Johnston>
Christening: 29 JUN 1851 United Associate Congregation, Lochee, Angus, Scotland
Father: John Johnston Mother: Jane Ogilvie
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A later submitted Margaret Johnston 1854 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
Father: John Johnstone
Mother: Jane Ogilvie
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The same parents had a few more with the <> surname

dennis

Post by **AndrewP** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:27 pm

Hi Dennis,

I think this has been a transcription method used outwith the normal OPR transcribing. The transcriber has given the child's mother by her maiden surname, followed by her married surname in the angled brackets.

You will notice that it is from the United Associate Congregation, not the Established Church of Scotland, and hence is not an OPR. On that basis it will not be on ScotlandsPeople.

This one is probably to be found in the Kirk Session books, some of which contain baptismal and marriage registers in them. CH3/334/2 is a baptismal register 1828 to 1867 from Lochee United Associate Congregation. These records are held in Dundee Archives, with a microfilm copy in NAS. That is almost certainly where that IGI entry was transcribed from.

All the best,

AndrewP