IGI puzzle

BarbR · Post by **BarbR** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 9:50 pm

After a fairly successful hour on SP using up my 30 credits I got far enough back to be able to make some use of the IGI this afternoon

Joseph Gibb married Isabella Tulloch
13 November 1868 Edinburgh Parish, Edinburgh

So then I went looking for Isabella Tulloch and the only one close to Edinburgh was born Gladsmuir, East Lothian 19 March 1846
Her parents are down as James Tulloch and Marion Hoggarth.

Went to look for that marriage and the only one I can come up with is James Tulloch and Marion Hogg 30 May 1829 Gladsmuir, East Lothian

What do you think? Are they the same people

Would love some opinions on this one.

Kind regards
Barbara

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:04 pm

Hi BarbR

Joseph Gibb married Isabella Tulloch
13 November 1868 Edinburgh Parish, Edinburgh

If you can find this on SP, the marriage entry will give you the names of Isabella's parents and her age. If you can find her in either the 1871 or 1881 census this should give you her place of birth. This then should make it easier to know when you have found the correct Isabella!

I wonder if this is them in 1881:

Dwelling: 28 Sutherland St
Census Place: Edinburgh St Cuthberts, Edinburgh, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0223992 GRO Ref Volume 685-1 EnumDist 85 Page 11
Joseph GIBB M 39 M Edinburgh, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Blacksmith
Isabella GIBB M 34 F Gladmin, Haddington, Scotland
Rel: Wife
John GIBB 12 M Edinburgh, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
James GIBB 10 M Edinburgh, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
William GIBB 8 M Edinburgh, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Christina GIBB 6 F Edinburgh, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar
Mary GIBB 4 F Edinburgh, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar
Isabella GIBB 2 F Edinburgh, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Jane GIBB 5 m F Edinburgh, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Daur

Best wishes
Lesley

BarbR · Post by **BarbR** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:22 pm

thanks for the prompt and helpful reply!

This indeed them on 1881. On 1891 her place of birth is "Haddingtonshire"
and on 1901 it is "Haddingtonshire:Gladsmuir" so yes, I think it must be the right Isabella as you say, but what of the Hogg and Hoggarth quandry?

Kind regards
Barbara

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:49 pm

Hi Barbara

Her parents are down as James Tulloch and Marion Hoggarth. Went to look for that marriage and the only one I can come up with is James Tulloch and Marion Hogg 30 May 1829 Gladsmuir, East Lothian

I'd be tempted to check what it says on Isabella's marriage entry first.

Following that, if it were me, I'd take note of what it says on the IGI and check the same entries on the actual OPR film. You can order these from your local LDS centre for a small charge, if you are nowhere near Edinburgh.

There are often errors on the IGI sometimes I think due to transcription problems - often the transcriber does not seem to have local knowledge of the area he or she is transcribing so placenames can turn up looking a bit "off". Other times it is simply a matter of interpreting what is there infront of you, often hampered by the handwriting & the condition of the document. However, following that, it may well be that it is indeed the same couple and the names do appear on the originals as you have stated - Hogg & Hoggarth.

If that turns out to be the case I'd be looking at the occupation of James Tulloch. This will be mentioned on Isabella's marriage If his occupation is the same or similar for the birth of Isabella and her siblings and the marriage to Marion I'd be tempted to conclude they just might be the same couple! (and possibly if you are lucky a location might have been mentioned in the OPR which can also act as a cross-check e.g "Robert Dick, Clerk, Wellwood Colliery and Marion White his wife had a daughter born the 3rd April 1841 baptised and named Christian. Wit. John Stewart & James Spowart" )

Best wishes
Lesley

BarbR · Post by **BarbR** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:33 pm

Thanks again for taking the time to reply.
I am 60 miles from nearest FHC so that is not an option for me at the moment (that's what happens when you live out in the country!).
I will get into the OPR on SP next time I'm on and see what I come up with following your suggestions regarding Isabella's marriage and her father's occupation. It would be nice to see the original handwriting and make up my own mind.......but it may not be possible just now.

Your help is very much appreciated.

kind regards
Barbara

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:45 pm

Hi Barbara

It would be nice to see the original handwriting and make up my own mind.......

The OPR info you can see on screen on SP doesn't currently display a copy of the original page (this is in the pipeline...) unlike the post-1855 SR BMDs, so the detail, if there is any, is not there. (be warned - sometimes there is no helpful extra detail in the OPR entries!) You can order OPR pages from SP but at £10 a go its quite an expensive way to see the entries and you only see one page! You really need to see the films.

It is good to see the entry in the original (or as near to it as you are likley to get for most OPRs). Reading through the pages, even pages which don't contain your relatives, can give a good feel for how dense the population was, what the predominant occupations were in the area, the "popular" surnames locally and a whole host of other background information which can be very useful in giving a "feel" for the area and it's people. Hope you can manage to see them at some point.

Best wishes
Lesley

Post by **joette** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:40 pm

Couldn't agree more was trawling some OPR films at my FHC on Sat.
Some went back to 1590! I just could not read that apart from the date!
As you go through you learn so much & I had an explanation as to why all the children were born in varying places(no I didn't find any) but as I read the Death Registers for CrawfordJohn(where my GGGreat-Grandfather John Veitch was born ) I came across several mentions of Strangers who died in the area.AHHHH his Father was an Ostler & this must have been an old drover trail-one of the stranger deaths was a drover herding cattle.They included the death of a Sailor now a beggar who said he came from the Parish of Ayr & included his tatoos-this is late 1700's early 1800's.They were all interred in the Churchyard & it made me realise that maybe people were not as compassionless as I had thought them to be then.There is mention of someone brought to the home of so& so where he/she died. It had me greeting to think that even then someone might have been fretting over the fate of a loved one & never knowing they had died but at least laid to rest in a pleasant place.
The names kept repeating & I charted a Birth,Marriage & Birth of Children & then Death of one girl.
The children's ages(Deaths) were charted as e.g. two years,six months,nineteen years & again it made me realise that Death of a child was a mourned & marked occasion or maybe just these Record Keepers were particularly caring people.
Well worth the £2.40 even if I didn't find any of mine on it!

caraid · Post by **caraid** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:25 pm

Hi Barbara
Going to throw a spanner in the works now. Checked the 1851 census for Gladsmuir (on FreeCen) and came up with
TULLOCH Samell, Head, Marr, 47yrs, Ag Lab, born Salton
HOGARTH Mahon, Wife, Marr, 40yrs born Haddington
TULLOCH Janet, Daughter, 16yrs, Farm Serv., born Gladsmuir
TULLOCH William, Son, 14yrs, Farm Serv., born Gladsmuir
TULLOCH David, Son, 12yrs, Scholar, born Gladsmuir
TULLOCH John, Son, 10yrs, Scholar, born Gladsmuir
TULLOCH Marron, Dau, 6yrs, Scholar, born Gladsmuir
TULLOCH Isibellia, Dau, 5yrs, born Gladsmuir
TULLOCH Margaret, Dau, 3yrs, born Gladsmuir
TULLOCH James, Son, 1yr, born Gladsmuir
Couln't see a Samuel anywhere on IGI, but if you enter James Tulloch & Marion Hogarth you get some of these children. The spelling of the names is a bit unusual

so the census returns may not be very clear, Maybe James fancied himself a Samuel

I would definatly go for the MC, and then see if you can find the Death of Marion Tulloch nee Hogarth.

Caraid

BarbR · Post by **BarbR** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:37 pm

Thank you for that - I hadn't thought about looking at freecen - appreciate your interest and help. Once again it would be great to see the he actual image for that census and make my own interpretation.

It's definately Isabella's marriage cert next time I'm on SP!!

Kind regards
Barbara

Looking for Yuill's · Post by **Looking for Yuill's** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:04 am

Barbara,

I just found you can get a copy of the OPR from the LDS in Salt lake City, Utah. For $2 a copy. Just go to their website, there is a form to send out, just fill in the call number, ect from the IGI record you want. I just did it with a two week turn around. Was able to see more details on some Glasgow records that are not on SP and too expensive to order at 10 pounds.

- Kristin