Hello everyone
I stay in Ayrshire and have just been involved with dealing with repair of parents headstone in connection with new government safety rules eg; if headstones are deemed unsafe after inspection unsightly stakes are erected and notices are attached to headstones with contact number for further details. I phoned the no. and was told the LAIR holder was responsible for contacting registered monumental mason and cost of repair which ours consisted of new foundation and the headstone being laid flat for 3 weeks while foundation set and then the mason re-erecting the stone. The reason for theese inspections was the result of some young children in England being injured from falling masonry which had been reported in the TV news . Thankfully our grandparents headstone was not affected but noticed at least 2 other distant relatives headstones were staked one of which I think lair holder could be in Canada.
If anyone is interested in this subject East Ayrshire Council has a very good web site and if you click the A-Z section and select C for cemeteries under bereavement services section (safety unit) they have details of their inspections and photographs .
Rita.
Staked headstones.....
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StewL
- Posts: 1396
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:59 am
- Location: Perth Western Australia
Hello Rita
Ah the anti-litigation brigade strike again.
I wonder what has happened to the ideal of personal responsibility for your actions.
I really feel the powers that be, wherever they are in the world or location, are trying to get a utopia, a place where there is no room for accidents or mishaps. A place that cannot and never will exist on this earth.
Sorry for getting on my bandwagon, but it does get to the point of ridiculous what local governments and others start introducing under the guise of safety.
Ah the anti-litigation brigade strike again.
I wonder what has happened to the ideal of personal responsibility for your actions.
I really feel the powers that be, wherever they are in the world or location, are trying to get a utopia, a place where there is no room for accidents or mishaps. A place that cannot and never will exist on this earth.
Sorry for getting on my bandwagon, but it does get to the point of ridiculous what local governments and others start introducing under the guise of safety.
Stewie
Searching for: Anderson, Balks, Barton, Courtney, Davidson, Downie, Dunlop, Edward, Flucker, Galloway, Graham, Guthrie, Higgins, Laurie, Mathieson, McLean, McLuckie, Miln, Nielson, Payne, Phillips, Porterfield, Stewart, Watson
Searching for: Anderson, Balks, Barton, Courtney, Davidson, Downie, Dunlop, Edward, Flucker, Galloway, Graham, Guthrie, Higgins, Laurie, Mathieson, McLean, McLuckie, Miln, Nielson, Payne, Phillips, Porterfield, Stewart, Watson
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scooter
- Posts: 372
- Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 8:22 pm
- Location: Kent, England
Hi Stewie,
Unfortunately this seems to be quite a common practice in the UK these days. I visited my Grandparents and Great Grandparents at the Rosebank Cemetery in Edinburgh last year and was astonished at how many stones has been laid flat. It rather looked like a hurricane had blown through the place. I've since learned that this may in part have also been the work of vandals, which is another depressing fact that seems to becoming more frequent in this country. Just the other week my father asked a group of lads to stop cycling across the graves in the cemetery where my sister is buried, and was told to royally **** off. I'm only 33, but I couldn't have imagined saying that to a grown up when I was that age, let alone rampage through a burial ground.
Cheers,
Scott
Unfortunately this seems to be quite a common practice in the UK these days. I visited my Grandparents and Great Grandparents at the Rosebank Cemetery in Edinburgh last year and was astonished at how many stones has been laid flat. It rather looked like a hurricane had blown through the place. I've since learned that this may in part have also been the work of vandals, which is another depressing fact that seems to becoming more frequent in this country. Just the other week my father asked a group of lads to stop cycling across the graves in the cemetery where my sister is buried, and was told to royally **** off. I'm only 33, but I couldn't have imagined saying that to a grown up when I was that age, let alone rampage through a burial ground.
Cheers,
Scott
Researching Wishart (Glasgow & Kirkcaldy), McDonald (Donegal & Falkirk), Thomson (Star, Fife) & Harley (Monimail, Moonzie & Cupar)
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WilmaM
- Posts: 1874
- Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:46 am
- Location: Falkirk area
Of course if the Owners or Local Authorities responsible for the cemetery had looked after them there would be none of these problems.
That's me getting on my bandwagon.
I live in the Falkirk area and the majority of the grave yards here - certainly the ones still in use] are a joy to visit and even the old 'full' ones are kept tidy.
Completely unlike the last one I visited in Glasgow [ Craigton] where a machete and suit of armour would have been needed to get more than 2 stone along some paths.
That's me getting on my bandwagon.
I live in the Falkirk area and the majority of the grave yards here - certainly the ones still in use] are a joy to visit and even the old 'full' ones are kept tidy.
Completely unlike the last one I visited in Glasgow [ Craigton] where a machete and suit of armour would have been needed to get more than 2 stone along some paths.
Wilma
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scooter
- Posts: 372
- Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 8:22 pm
- Location: Kent, England
I agree with you there Wilma. Most of my McDonald ancestors are buried in the cemetery at Camelon which always seems very well kept. I believe my Grandmother used to take my father and his brothers there for picnics in the 1950's!
It's such a shame about the Rosebank which has some awesome headstones dotted about. On a dark misty day it looks really very gothic.
Best,
Scott
It's such a shame about the Rosebank which has some awesome headstones dotted about. On a dark misty day it looks really very gothic.
Best,
Scott
Researching Wishart (Glasgow & Kirkcaldy), McDonald (Donegal & Falkirk), Thomson (Star, Fife) & Harley (Monimail, Moonzie & Cupar)
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STUARTDALGLEISH
- Posts: 145
- Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 7:57 pm
- Location: PAISLEY
Hi Wilma,
Craigton used to be in private hands until about a year ago where it came back under Glasgow City Council I think. The top end has had quite alot of work done and is starting to improve and with the new school being built at the top end I'm sure the rest will be upgraded over the next few years.
Just watch out for Indiana Jones next time you are there, and the Witches gravestone over near Barfillan Drive ooooooooooo
I used to play in this graveyard as a boy and it had the best chestnut tree around.
Cheers
Stuart
Craigton used to be in private hands until about a year ago where it came back under Glasgow City Council I think. The top end has had quite alot of work done and is starting to improve and with the new school being built at the top end I'm sure the rest will be upgraded over the next few years.
Just watch out for Indiana Jones next time you are there, and the Witches gravestone over near Barfillan Drive ooooooooooo
I used to play in this graveyard as a boy and it had the best chestnut tree around.
Cheers
Stuart
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JustJean
- Posts: 2520
- Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:52 am
- Location: Maine USA
And now a view from across the pond 
I found this topic very interesting and also the council website where I was able to view clips of the actual cemeteries.
In my corner of the world we have numerous cemeteries all in various states of repair. The newest and largest are well maintained usually via a means called "perpetual care". The lot owner pays a fee when purchasing the lot (a lot contains several grave "sites" or lairs as you would call them) and this money is held in trust the proceeds of which pay for the mowing and trimming upkeep. Not all cemeteries are like this...some lots only get mowed and kept nice looking by the owners themselves. It is a practice that usually gets passed down through generations. A huge difference though is the "ownership" part. We get a deed to the lot. That means that we own the land as well as the head stones or markers.
So far we've no ordinances that require stones to be secured for safety reasons although I suspect the idea would sell like hotcakes if anyone gets wind of it
I'm sure there must be other practices in the US and maybe there are places that do have greater controls over stone maintenace but around here we're lucky I guess!
After all that blether I now have a question for you native Scots before I take on your "City Hall"
......I have an ancestor (my GrGrGrandfather) who is buried in Wallacetown Cemetery in Ayr. I discovered this through the monumental inscription booklet published by the Family History Society in that area. The stone that marks his lair has several names inscribed on it. One appears to be a step-daughter who likely had the stone placed. Another name is that of my GrGrGrandfather's son (and from my direct line) who died in his teens. The stone however is broken in two pieces and it sounds like the top portion rests some distance from the lower half. Some writing is on each half and I was only able to determine which pieces fit together by researching a second marriage line. I have absolutely no legal claim to this lair or stone but can certify and prove that I am a blood relative of two of the people buried there. Do you think there is any way I could convince the Council to at least move the broken piece back to rest near the base it belongs to? After reading about these things it sounds to me like it would be the responsibility of the lair owner to maintain the stone. How does that get proven? Does anyone have any experience with anything like this before???? Oh yes...one other piece...this cemetery is now closed.
Thanks for listening
Jean
I found this topic very interesting and also the council website where I was able to view clips of the actual cemeteries.
In my corner of the world we have numerous cemeteries all in various states of repair. The newest and largest are well maintained usually via a means called "perpetual care". The lot owner pays a fee when purchasing the lot (a lot contains several grave "sites" or lairs as you would call them) and this money is held in trust the proceeds of which pay for the mowing and trimming upkeep. Not all cemeteries are like this...some lots only get mowed and kept nice looking by the owners themselves. It is a practice that usually gets passed down through generations. A huge difference though is the "ownership" part. We get a deed to the lot. That means that we own the land as well as the head stones or markers.
So far we've no ordinances that require stones to be secured for safety reasons although I suspect the idea would sell like hotcakes if anyone gets wind of it
I'm sure there must be other practices in the US and maybe there are places that do have greater controls over stone maintenace but around here we're lucky I guess! After all that blether I now have a question for you native Scots before I take on your "City Hall"
......I have an ancestor (my GrGrGrandfather) who is buried in Wallacetown Cemetery in Ayr. I discovered this through the monumental inscription booklet published by the Family History Society in that area. The stone that marks his lair has several names inscribed on it. One appears to be a step-daughter who likely had the stone placed. Another name is that of my GrGrGrandfather's son (and from my direct line) who died in his teens. The stone however is broken in two pieces and it sounds like the top portion rests some distance from the lower half. Some writing is on each half and I was only able to determine which pieces fit together by researching a second marriage line. I have absolutely no legal claim to this lair or stone but can certify and prove that I am a blood relative of two of the people buried there. Do you think there is any way I could convince the Council to at least move the broken piece back to rest near the base it belongs to? After reading about these things it sounds to me like it would be the responsibility of the lair owner to maintain the stone. How does that get proven? Does anyone have any experience with anything like this before???? Oh yes...one other piece...this cemetery is now closed.Thanks for listening
Jean
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rita
- Posts: 85
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 12:11 am
- Location: Ayrshire
Hi Jean
Noticed your cemetery in South Ayrshire has been closed since 1959 so that is a bit of a problem for you.
Re my parents repair of headstone when my mother died 3years ago the lair cert with no and section transfered to my brother and as he was unemployed and in ill health and had also mooved from the area was happy for me to deal with contacting East Ayrshire council although I must say when I phoned they kept insisting it was up to the lair holder who should deal with the problem.
I then phoned our local Co-operative Funeralcare who said that we could transfer the cert to me as long as my brother and myself signed the form they then said to leave everything to them as they would contact council and also arrange the repair they were very helpful I didn't need to do anything else . The work is now completed and along with the bill got a nice photograph of headstone just so relieved to see the stakes gone.
Local papers in Kilmarnock last year had headlines about the safety inspections taken place and I remember a lot of letters had been written by readers angry about not being notified and a lot of issues regarding some of the concerns which you have written, at the time I didn't take much notice as didn't think we as a family were affected (how wrong I was) I now stay in North Ayrshire and read in local paper that this council are now starting their inspections don't know whether Ayr (south) have done any yet.
Rita.
Noticed your cemetery in South Ayrshire has been closed since 1959 so that is a bit of a problem for you.
Re my parents repair of headstone when my mother died 3years ago the lair cert with no and section transfered to my brother and as he was unemployed and in ill health and had also mooved from the area was happy for me to deal with contacting East Ayrshire council although I must say when I phoned they kept insisting it was up to the lair holder who should deal with the problem.
I then phoned our local Co-operative Funeralcare who said that we could transfer the cert to me as long as my brother and myself signed the form they then said to leave everything to them as they would contact council and also arrange the repair they were very helpful I didn't need to do anything else . The work is now completed and along with the bill got a nice photograph of headstone just so relieved to see the stakes gone.
Local papers in Kilmarnock last year had headlines about the safety inspections taken place and I remember a lot of letters had been written by readers angry about not being notified and a lot of issues regarding some of the concerns which you have written, at the time I didn't take much notice as didn't think we as a family were affected (how wrong I was) I now stay in North Ayrshire and read in local paper that this council are now starting their inspections don't know whether Ayr (south) have done any yet.
Rita.