buriel lair

[HELLSBELLS]

I am now living in Australia and have been back to Scotland a couple of times to catch up with family there and on my visits back I found out where my Aunts Uncles and Grandfather were buried (Greenock Cemetery). Whilst over there I found out that there were 4-5 of my Uncles and aunts as well as my Grandfather buried in the one lair but alas there was only one name mentioned on the headstone (the latest Uncle who died in 1980) I wanted to put the names of my other family members who were buried there but find that I must get permission from my cousin who now holds the deed to the buriel lair. Is there anyother way that I can have my other family members included on the headstone as I have been in touch with my cousin who is not responding to my question. Regardshellsbelsaustralia

[Russell]

Hi Hellsbells

Your question is a rather sensitive one. The right to erect a memorial stone or amend the inscription thereon lie with the holder of the Lair papers. Under Scots law a Lair is part of the deceased's estate and the right to make future decisions about it lie with the holder of those papers so your cousin must authorise any changes.Did you make it clear to your cousin that you would finance any additions made ?
Perhaps you could try working indirectly by asking the local council whether they could ask your cousin if the additional names could be added.
I found a year or two back that the lair papers which I held for grandparents and g-grandparents lairs would have committed me to a £25.00 annual maintenance fee(which had not been paid for half a century ) Perhaps this applies here.
The council address is:-
Inverclyde Council
Municipal Buildings
GREENOCK
PA15 1LY
I hope you have success with your efforts.

Russell

[Currie]

Here’s a bit of documentation “Management Rules: Inverclyde Cemeteries and Crematorium” (pdf file) http://www.inverclyde.gov.uk//GetAsset. ... AfAAwAHwA0

See Section 7 re memorials, in particular (i).

“No works of any kind will be permitted inside the grounds of the Cemetery without a permit and the sanction of the Appropriate Officer, who must be satisfied that the authority of the registered Owner has been obtained before work commences.”

It would be a very brave or foolish council that allowed itself to become involved in the slightest in a dispute, or even negotiations, between the registered owner of a lair and just one of a possible multitude of relatives who may have a wide range of views on whether or not existing gravestones should be interfered with. If the owner of the lair has already refused permission or intentionally ignored a request then letters from a public authority about the matter could possibly be seen as harassment. I see it as a strictly private matter between the two parties.

All the best,
Alan

[nelmit]

If I had known it was so complicated I probably wouldn't have got one for my grandparents.

My dad's ashes were buried in his parents grave (my mum got permission) and we placed a memorial plaque for him on the grave. Since his parents had no headstone I had another plaque made years later and placed it on the grave too - basically to indicate who was buried there. I just did it and never thought about asking anyone.

I suppose it is a wee bit more complicated for you since you know your cousin 'owns' the lair but surely he would have no objections to a memorial plaque.

Regards,
Annette

[Currie]

That sounds like a pretty good idea Annette, and could be an easier way of reaching a negotiated compromise.

It’s the sort of thing I’d probably try if there wasn’t an ownership complication, but with my luck the cemetery police would be sure to be watching if I ever did. So as not to attract attention, I’d probably drop it there in the dead of night, as I just happened to be walking past.

Could you please give us a bit of a description as to the plaque, size, material made from, how deposited, and whatever else you think may be useful. Even a picture would help, though not necessarily of those you mentioned lest your cover be blown.

All the best,
Alan

[Ina]

Hi Hellsbells,

Most of my relatives are buried at the Greenock Cemetery. I was not aware that there could be five or six people buried in one lair.

There are two people buried in my grandfather's lair and I now hold the deed to that lair (cost me 14 pounds to transfer the deed to my name). The folks at the cemetery office told me there could only be a maximum of three people in each lair.

Perhaps your relatives are buried in two plots side by side and only one headstone. A few of my ancestors don't have headstones, but the people at the office sent someone out with me to walk off the area and show me exactly where they were buried.

Ina

[AndrewP]

I was not aware that there could be five or six people buried in one lair.

There are two people buried in my grandfather's lair and I now hold the deed to that lair (cost me 14 pounds to transfer the deed to my name). The folks at the cemetery office told me there could only be a maximum of three people in each lair.

Perhaps your relatives are buried in two plots side by side and only one headstone. A few of my ancestors don't have headstones, but the people at the office sent someone out with me to walk off the area and show me exactly where they were buried.

Hi Ina and Hellsbells,

The amount of burials per lair depends on whether it is a single or double lair, and the depth of manageable soil (such as if there is rock close to the surface). I have some family with eight burials in a lair - presumably a double lair at four deep.

All the best,

AndrewP

[johnniegarve]

I think that it often depends on when the last interment took place, allowing for "one more on top!"

[HELLSBELLS]

Thank you everyone for your advice on this problem. I have printed out the management rules which one of you provided for me and I have contacted my cousin again with no response but I do not think I will get the council involved by asking them to write to him on my behalf. I did not mention that I was prepared to pay for any inclusion of names to the headstone but I will try again and mention this which may help my cousin to change his mind.

I also took note that someone mentioned that my relatives may be inturned in a separate plot but when I checked with the cemetery when I was over there all my relatives were written up as being in the same plot number.

Thanks again for all the suggestions and I will try to work this out in the most discrete way that I know how.

Regards
Hellsbells

[Currie]

Best of luck and I hope it comes to a satisfactory conclusion.

Alan