birth place

[thomsos]

Hi Lesley,

Mary's son James Sharp was the informant on her dc, her parents are listed as -
John Struthers
_______Struthers, ms _______

the informant on Marrions is her nephew - John Frum or Fram

Mary Struthers and James Sharp first daughter was named Helen b abt 1827 Sorn

Sandra

[Currie]

Hello Sandra,

The link to the John Struthers/Mary Allan family looks pretty grim, it could be the time to start hunting around elsewhere.

Following on from Lesley’s question connected to traditional naming patterns and the child Helen.

If you look at the children of James Sharp/Mary Struthers on the IGI you’ll see a mix of Extracts and Submissions all of which sit fairly happily with the 1841 census info except for the first two possible children Robert and Helen. I’m not sure where Robert fits but the extracts are for the next four eldest after Helen and for the children after that there are positive looking submissions but for Helen there is only an “about 1825” date and a totally different, if nearby, birthplace of Old Cumnock. That submitter may well have been clutching at straws but we’ll play along with it for a while.

According to Hugh Wallis the Old Cumnock batch for the period is C116104 and the only obvious looking one therein is.
HELEN SHARP
Birth: 02 MAY 1824 Old Cumnock, Ayr, Scotland
Father: HUGH SHARP
Mother: MARGARET LAPRAIK

If we look for a Helen Sharp marriage in Ayrshire this one comes to light.
HELEN SHARP
Spouse: JOHN REID
Marriage: 08 DEC 1843 Old Cumnock, Ayr, Scotland.

If we follow it through on 1851 FreeCen this looks promising.

Piece: SCT1851/610 Place: Old Cumnock -Ayrshire Enumeration District: 6
Civil Parish: Old Cumnock Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Old Cumnock
Folio: 0 Page: 8 Schedule: 21
Address: Taiglem Cottage
Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
REID John Head M M 27 Engineer Ayrshire - New Cumnock
REID Helen Wife M F 26 Engineer's Wife Ayrshire - Old Cumnock
REID John Son - M 4 Ayrshire - Old Cumnock
REID Hugh Son - M 1 Ayrshire - Old Cumnock
SMITH James Vistor U M 16 Agricultural Labourer Ayrshire – Dailly

Note that the 2nd son is named Hugh which suggests that Helen (along maybe with the 20+ year old Robert on the 1841 census) isn’t the child of James and Mary Sharp. The age discrepancy of Helen on the census could be put down to the fact that she wasn’t their child. I seem to get to this position even ignoring the submission but you’d better check my reasoning to make sure. James and Mary’s daughter Jane appears to be actually Jean. Note that the daughter Janet has the middle name Richmond.

So after all that beating round the bush it looks as though the theory is that you could be looking for the birth of a Mary Struthers (hopefully) in Douglas Ayr with father’s name William and mother’s name Jean. Also for a James Sharp, fathers name James and mother’s name Anne. Perhaps there’s a Richmond thrown into the mix somewhere. But all of that’s a big maybe.

There may be missing records or the family may have been non conformist (my lot were even to the extent of avoiding statutory birth registrations until 1862). As an example, if you look for the birth of the 1 year old Hugh Reid on the IGI he doesn’t seem to be there. I haven’t checked any of the above on the SP search.

All of this is just speculation but might be food for thought. I hope I’m not leading you up any blind alleys. This link will give you some idea of the state of the OPRs. http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/famrec/hlpsrch/opr.html

Alan

[thomsos]

Hi Alan

So after all that beating round the bush it looks as though the theory is that you could be looking for the birth of a Mary Struthers (hopefully) in Douglas Ayr with father’s name William and mother’s name Jean. Also for a James Sharp, fathers name James and mother’s name Anne. Perhaps there’s a Richmond thrown into the mix somewhere. But all of that’s a big maybe.
Alan

What a confusing family,

Spent all day yesterday trying to figure this out, and seem to be going round in circles
Marys dc has her fathers name as John, so William does not fit, and on James Sharps dc 1866, his fathers name is Robert mother unknown, but if I do a search on sp for James Sharps birth, I can't find one for a James with father Robert...... also I tried a search on sp for the children of James Sharp and Mary Struthers in Ayr 1800-1854 and get nothing.


Sandra

[Currie]

Back again Sandra,

So much for theories, they often fall down in a heap. Maybe too many theories just make things worse.

I don’t know why those christenings aren’t on SP. The four extracted ones on the IGI are all Church of Scotland. I checked for all four individually on SP and couldn’t find them. This one for example.

JANET RICHMOND SHARP
Christening: 27 MAR 1836 Sorn, Ayr, Scotland
Father: JAMES SHARP
Mother: MARY STRUTHERS
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record.
Source Information:
C116135 1827 - 1854 1041468 Film

The Family Search catalogue gives the following information.

Title: Parish registers for Sorn, 1692-1854
Authors: Church of Scotland. Parish Church of Sorn (Ayrshire) (Main Author)
Baptisms, v. 3, 1827-1854; Marriages, v. 4, 1820-1854. - FHL BRITISH Film [1041468 Items 1 - 2]

Just checked that one again and it is on SP but not under Ayrshire. A search for the exact name and christening date gives a result if “All Records” is selected. In fact there may be 7 kids there for Sharp/Struthers.

Alan

[thomsos]

Hi Alan

Just checked that one again and it is on SP but not under Ayrshire. A search for the exact name and christening date gives a result if “All Records” is selected. In fact there may be 7 kids there for Sharp/Struthers.

Yes I found them too, with no parish, no county and no images, so a bit of a waste of a cr there was no Robert & no Helen either, I think I took these from Free Cen.

Sandra

[Currie]

Hello Sandra,

They probably have the images buried in the database somewhere and it may just be a broken link problem or something like that. You could try a contact form to SP to ask what the problem is and if they can correct it. You could also ask for a refund of any credits wasted (if that turns out to be the case) on searching for something that isn’t available.

Alan

[thomsos]

Hi,
Just found Helen Wilson ms Sharp dc 1877 Maybole, so she was James and Mary's daughter b 1827, it is not a very good copy and would appreciate a little help trying to decipher it.

Thank you
Sandra

http://www.talkingscot.com/gallery/disp ... at=0&pos=0

URL added by Ina

[AndrewP]

Hi Sandra,

Here's my go at the deciphering.

Helen Wilson, married to Hugh Wilson (Journeyman Sawyer(?))
1877, October sixteenth(?), 3h pm, Minishant, Maybole
F, 50 years
Father: James Sharp, Farmer (dec.)
Mother: Mary Sharp, M.S. Struthers (dec.)
Heart Disease, 3 Months(?), As certified by Robert Andrew, Surgeon
Informant: Hugh Wilson (Widower), Present
1877, October 18th, At Maybole, Joh Watson, Registrar

Drop SP a contact form telling them the image is not legible. Normally they will e-mail you a fresh scan of the certificate from the register.

All the best,

AndrewP

[thomsos]

Hi Andrew,
Just recieved a fresh scan, and your eyesight must be pretty good, all you were out on was she died the on the 17th not 16th and 3 yrs not 3 mths, well done =D>

Thank you
Sandra