Scottish naming pattern? .....

StewL · Post by **StewL** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:05 am

As Dave pointed out there is the "maternal" line used in names.

My sister is Jean Stewart - mothers maiden name
My names:
Stewart - mothers maiden name
Graham - Paternal ggrandmothers maiden name
Barton - Maternal grandmothers maiden name.

As a young lad I had quite a few friends who had maiden surnames as their given names. I met some Scots here in Aust, and they have maternal maiden names as given names too.
What a complicated naming pattern we have, no hard or fast rule either, so it would appear.

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:57 am

Starting around the mid-1850s it became much more common to use a family surname, e.g. mother's maiden name or grannies' maiden names, as a middle name.

Prior to that a surname as a middle name generally meant one of two things, membership of the aristocracy, or illegitimacy

(with the middle name being that of the alleged father).

I've never yet seen any pattern in terms of the surname used. In some families the middle (sur)name wouldn't be repeated, with the parents working their way right through to the great-grandparents, whereas in others a number of kids would have the same middle name.

About the only definitive comment I'd make is that the mother's maiden name occurs most often, with the father's mother's maiden name not far behind.

Watch out, however, for the very strong tradition of a child being named after the minister when it was his first baptism, or the doctor's name being used following a difficult birth

Watch out also for a not uncommon situation in Scotland of someone adopting a family surname as a middle name in later life.

Davie

Marie Svedahl · Post by **Marie Svedahl** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 6:24 am

So far I haven't come across many instances of a surname being used as a middle name in my Scottish families. However I have seen many when browsing files, etc.

Watch out, however, for the very strong tradition of a child being named after the minister when it was his first baptism, or the doctor's name being used following a difficult birth

I've never heard of the minister bit but I remember being told that my father was given the first name, John, because that was the doctor's name. I thought that was just a story to cover up the fact that he'd been named after my grandmother's father (she was illigit.) So maybe it was the doctor after all.

Marie

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:06 pm

I am so very fortunate in that my wonderful Scottish ancestors were so traditional. Not only did they use the naming pattern for given names [although reverse order in one instance] they also used the maiden surnames names as middle names from the mid 1800s up to and including the most recent entries that I can access on line. They used not only the mother’s m.s., but the grandmothers’, and even the great grandmothers’. It all adds to the fun.
Catherine

Marie Svedahl · Post by **Marie Svedahl** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 6:52 pm

The use of a "maiden name" as a middle name which I've found in my family lines (so far only two) have both been given to daughters.

I have wondered if in those cases the entire given part (ex: Margaret Hamilton or Jess Wright) would have been the original mother or grandmother's complete name? I've not found the ancestor in either case so have no clue to their correct identity.

What has been your experience in regards to the useage of the "complete name" in naming daughters after an ancestor?

Marie

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 7:07 pm

Marie Svedahl wrote:....snipped.......What has been your experience in regards to the useage of the "complete name" in naming daughters after an ancestor?
Marie

Marie

Occasionally, yes. In my own tree a sister of my granny was named Fanny Victoria Douglas MACLENNAN, which took a wee bit of sorting out, - Fanny DOUGLAS turned out to be a great grandmother of hers who died not long before her birth, with the "intrusive" Victoria deriving from the fact it was that Queen's Jubilee !

Davie

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 7:11 pm

I continue to sing the praises of my ancestors. They left such a wonderful trail of bread crumbs. I need only continue to give SP my credit card number and they just seem to roll up before me on the screen.
Over and over and over there are daughters with the given and ms surname of the grandmother or great-grandmother. There are wonderful names as Jane Cumming Rodger, Catherine Davidson Rodger, Elizabeth Hoy Rodger, Jane Wallace Cummings Inglis, Elizabeth Hoy Inglis, Mary Patton Hoy, and on and on.
The tradition was not resticted to the daughters. There are also great names for the males as John Hoy Rodger, John William Hoy Inglis, William Todd Inglis, David Wallace Porteous Inglis, and more.
Catherine

Post by **AnneM** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 10:27 pm

Hi

Up until the mid 1950s in my family and for a few generations back we have had a strong tradition of naming the eldest daughter.

My given names are Anne Kerr.
My mother's are Jean Young
Her mother's were Annie Allan (her surname Kerr)
Her mother was Jeanie McFarlane (Young)
Her mother was Annie (Allan)

I don't know who Annie Allan's mother was because she was married and died in Northern Ireland though may have been born in Scotland but unfortunately the McFarlane name is Jeanie's father's mother's maiden name, so the pattern breaks there. (Her given name was however Susanna so maybe the first name was from Annie's mother).

Mind you, I don't think that even had I known this when I named my daughter I would have called her Jean McLachlan Oswald. Just does not have the right ring to it.

I have one instance in my father's family where a daughter was named Agnes Ellis Shedden and it turned out from the census that Agnes Ellis was the landlady. Another poster on this group, who was at NRH at the same time, kindly suggested that this meant they were probably behind with the rent. All too horribly likely.

Anne

Marie Svedahl · Post by **Marie Svedahl** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 12:33 am

Thanks everyone for all your great responses. There has been so much information on the subject that I'm printing it out so I'll have it close at hand whenever I'm faced with a problem.

And Anne, I loved your post......

I have one instance in my father's family where a daughter was named Agnes Ellis Shedden and it turned out from the census that Agnes Ellis was the landlady. Another poster on this group, who was at NRH at the same time, kindly suggested that this meant they were probably behind with the rent. All too horribly likely.

Take care everyone

Marie

anne · Post by **anne** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 12:00 am

Late in posting to this subject - I'm not sure that anyone's mentioned this .... the child named after the Minister....??
I couldn't figure out why my grandmother's brother had the three forenames "Baptist James Holmes". Taking his forenames out of the picture, the rest of his siblings fell comfortably into the Scottish naming pattern (as described by others who have replied to this subject). So why did he get his names?
I was all over the place - looking for Holmes as a surname in previous generations, wondering if they had at that time adhered to the Baptist Church......... then I got a copy of his parents marriage certificate. The officiating Minister was ........... Baptist James Holmes.
Apparently it wasn't unusual for people to name a child after the local Minister, especially if it was the first baptism he had conducted in the parish.