birth place

thomsos · Post by **thomsos** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:46 am

Hi everyone,

I have a little problem with were Mary Sharp, ms Struthers, was born, I have her dc 1868 Maybole age 68, father John Struthers mother ?, on the 1841 free cen it has Mary age 40 b in Ayrshire, but in the 1951 cen it has Mary age 52 born in Douglas Lanarkshire. I have looked at the births on sp and the only Mary Struthers b in 1800, parents JOHN STRUTHERS/ELISABETH BOWIE, was born in Glasgow, but there is a Mary b1796, Sorn, parents JOHN STRUTHERS/MARY ALLAN, I have also the OPR mc to James Sharp in 1826, but cannot read it, I have uploaded it to see if anyone out there can

http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... ?pos=-1480

Thank you
Sandra

Gallery URL added - AndrewP

ROY M · Post by **ROY M** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:59 am

Hi Sandra
Your census ages could be correct. In the 1841 census ages were rounded down to the nearest 5. Mary is shown as 40 in the census then she could be aged between 40 and 44. There should be a link in the forum that will explain this for you.
Hope this helps

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:36 pm

hi Sandra
The info about the 1841 mentioned by Roy is here:
http://www.talkingscot.com/censuses/census-1841.htm

Or click the census link at the top of this page.

Best wishes
Lesley

Currie · Post by **Currie** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:49 pm

I think this fellow has been making his own ink or forgot to stir it. It looks to me like.

James Sharp and Mary Struthers
both in this parish after being
duly proclaimed here in order to mar
raige were married 24th Nov 1826 s.d.

The only reason I have Struthers is because that’s what the IGI says and it looks good to me.

JAMES SHARP
Marriages: Spouse: MARY STRUTHERS
24 NOV 1826 Sorn, Ayr, Scotland

Alan

thomsos · Post by **thomsos** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:16 pm

So does anyone think it is safe to say that Mary was born in Sorn, and her parent are JOHN STRUTHERS/MARY ALLAN

Sandra

Currie · Post by **Currie** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:53 am

Hello Sandra,

When I first looked at your post I think I just read the name Sharp and went at the image like a Bull at a Gate.

You could try these searches yourself. On the IGI the 1796 Baptism of Mary Struthers is in batch C116134. If you search that Sorn batch for those with father John Struthers you’ll find three sets of parents who turn out to be or at least appear to be (after marriage and parent searches).

1. John Struthers/Ann Young, m.1768 E. Kilbride, Children Janet 1772, Marrion 1775 & Ann 1778.
2. John Struthers/Agnes Reid, m. 1783 Tarbolton, Children Elizabeth 1784, Sarah 1787.
3. John Struthers/Mary Allan, m.1780 Sorn, Children Elisabeth 1785, Marrion1793, Mary 1796, Agnes 1801.

The first one looks a bit early to be yours. The second, well it depends on how complete the records are and maybe they had a Mary and the records aren’t there but if you search that batch and the other birthplace one without putting in a name they look quite healthy. But on the face of it the third looks very promising. If she was married in Sorn there’s a very good chance she was born in Sorn and the Father’s name matches, the age looks reasonable, there are no other contenders. To add or not to add, that is the question you’ll probably have to answer for yourself.

Have you been able to find her on the 1861 Census to clarify the place of Mary’s birth? Did you mean that Mary’s name was unknown, blank or unreadable on the 1868 dc, If unknown there can often be a reason, maybe an early death?

Hope this helps a bit,
Alan

thomsos · Post by **thomsos** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:08 am

Hi Alan,

On Mary's dc her parents are listed as -
John Struthers
_______Struthers, ms _______

1841 census Mary listed as b Ayrshire
1851 b Douglas, Lanarkshire
1861 b Douglas, Lanarkshire

so still a bit confussed

Sandra

Currie · Post by **Currie** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 3:57 am

Just a few thoughts, Sandra, they may or may not be useful.

It makes it difficult when the Douglas bit is so consistent in 1851 and 1861 and it stands out like a sore thumb amid the rest of the family born Sorn. Makes you wonder whether James has acquired a different Mary for a wife but that doesn’t seem to fit. It would be a bit odd if she, or the person supplying the census info, suddenly acquired a belief so late in life that she was born in Lanarkshire if in fact she wasn’t. The 1841 Ayrshire birth is more likely the error but then how aware of the exact location of County boundaries would people have been in 1841.

Maybe she was born in Douglas but christened in Sorn, the mother might have gone to her mother’s place for birth etc. Sorn to Douglas seems to be about 25 miles as the crow flies. Lanarkshire is definitely the main Struthers County, the IGI shows Lanarkshire to have around 75% of total Scottish Struthers christenings in the 1780-1820 period.

Might be interesting to see where the other possible siblings, Agnes, Marrion and Elisabeth, all christened Sorn subsequently claimed their place of birth to be on census’s if findable. Although the IGI extract for Marrion has a birth date and place and no christening date, not sure how unusual that is.

There’s someone on WorldConnect with an interest in Struthers from Sorn. (see also Struders) maybe they know something.
http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi? ... recno=3935

Hope this helps,
Alan

thomsos · Post by **thomsos** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 3:39 pm

Hi Alan,
I have a Marrion, Mary and Agnes Struthers together in the 1841 census all b in Ayrshire, which means if this is John Struthers and Mary Alans family, then my Mary Struthers cannot be from this family, as she was married to James Sharp at this time.
and in the 1851 census, same address is Marrion, Agnes and Elizabeth all unmarried , born Sorn.
Marrion Died 1874 single, parents John Struthers and Mary Alan, so if the parents are listed in Marrion dc, you would think that they should be on my Marys, I have a feeling that my Mary was not part of this family.

Sandra

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 3:59 pm

Hi Sandra

so if the parents are listed in Marrion dc, you would think that they should be on my Marys,

Who was the death informant in both cases? Was it the same person?
Is her husband still alive and with her in the 1861 & 1851 census?
What did name did Mary give her first daughter?

Best wishes
Lesley