Two marriages for the same couple BOGIE & DAVIDSON

kerbent · Post by **kerbent** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:07 am

I'm fairly new to Scottish records but I was wondering if some could explain if it was common or even possible that a couple could marry twice a month appart in Scotland.)
I have a David Bogie marrying Isabel Davidson twice (according to the IGI)

marriage 1 - 23 Jul 1737, Leslie, Fife, Scotland, United Kingdom
marriage 2 - 5 Aug 1737, Aberdour, Fife, Scotland, United Kingdom

and if it was possible why would they have married in both churches?

Thanks in advance.
Sandra
Melbourne, Australia

Post by **SarahND** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:17 am

Hi Sandra,
Welcome to Talking Scot! [talkingscot]

I have seen many marriages listed twice in the OPRs. Since those records are "Banns and Marriages" it is usually the banns being called in two parishes. It is likely that the groom was from one of the locations and the bride from another-- or that they were working in one parish but came from another. Does this fit your couple?

All the best,
Sarah

kerbent · Post by **kerbent** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:45 am

Thank you Sarah,

This gives me another place to look for Isavel DAVIDSON who has been very ellusive up till now. Perhaps she was born in or around Aberdour, Fife. As I know DAvid Bogie was born in Leslie, Fife.

And so the search continues, every little bit helps. Any clue could be turn out to be valuable.

Sandra

Post by **SarahND** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:36 am

Hi Sandra,
Have you looked at the actual OPR records on Scotlands People? That far back it's a gamble whether or not you get more than the basic info, but there could be a clue, e.g. "David Bogie of this parish and Isabel Davidson of Aberdour". Or, with great luck it might have his profession or her father's name.

All the best,
Sarah

kerbent · Post by **kerbent** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:35 am

SarahND wrote:Have you looked at the actual OPR records on Scotlands People? Sarah

I had never used the scotland records before your recommendation but have found out lots of new information now, but rather than start with "David Bogie and Isabel Davidson" I thought I had better work backwards from the present in a logical manner, just incase I started climbing the wrong tree, if you know what I mean...

My starting point was Hannah Bogie daughter of David Bogie and Isable Fyffe This couple was identified as the parents of Hannah and her siblings on their death certificates.
The couple married on 30 Jul 1813 in Dysart, Fife, Scotland, according to the Dysart Old Parish Register both groom and bride were identified as being of this Parish, Dysart. Unfortunately no parents were given for either party.
So now I'm trying to work out who David Bogies parents were.
The only census that David Bogie appears in the 1841 where he is 50 (his wife was a widow in the 1851 census) which means that he could have been born between 1787 and 1791 as the ages were rounded down to the nearest 5. So he could have been anywhere between 50 and 54 years old and according to the entry in the Church marriage register he came from the parish of Dysart – so I assume that he was most likely born there.

Doing a search on the IGI there are three David Bogie's that meet these parameters:-
1.Birth: 25 MAR 1790 , Christening: 28 MAR 1790 St. Andrews And St. Leonards, Fife, Scotland Parents:- DAVID BOGIE & ELIZABETH MCKAY
2. Birth: 15 JAN 1791, Christening: 16 JAN 1791 Kirkcaldy, Fife, Scotland. Parents: JAMES BOGIE & AGNES ANDERSON
3.Birth: 03 MAY 1792 Leslie, Fife, Scotland Parents: ROBERT BOGGIE & JANNET CURRER
What is the best way of going about establishing which couple are my David Bogie's parents. There doesn't appear to be a will and I can't find a death certificate that matches up with his profession of a mason?

I was hoping that someone might be able to give me some clues on where to head for next.

Thanks,
Sandra

Post by **SarahND** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:44 am

Hi Sandra,
One way to make an educated guess would be to look at the names given to David and Isable's children. You are in great luck that the three couples you found all have different names! The usual Scottish naming pattern is explained here:

http://talkingscot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3973

Do any of them fit?

All the best,
Sarah

kerbent · Post by **kerbent** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:10 am

I have looked at naming patterns, unfortunately I haven't established the descendant lineage of Hannah's sibling yet, although I have asked another distant relative who has made contact to compare Hannah's brother James descendants so we can see if any pattern emerges
Hannah's Siblings are as follows:-
i. James BOGIE b. 1820 in Fife, Scotland
ii. Elesbath BOGIE b. 1821 in Fife, Scotland
iii. Catherine BOGIE b. 14 Dec 1822, c. 5 Jan 1823 in Dysart, Fife, Scotland
iv. Margaret BOGIE b. 1825 in Fife, Scotland
v. Janet Black BOGIE b. 31 May 1826 in Dysart, Fife, Scotland
vi. Hannah BOGIE, herself
vii. David BOGIE b. 28 Apr 1830 c. 16 May 1830 in Dysart, Fife, Scotland
viii. Mary Mitchell BOGIE b. 16 Jun 1832 in Dysart, Fife, Scotland c. on 8 Jul 1832 in Dysart, Fife, Scotland
ix. Georgina BOGIE b. 14 Jan 1835 in Dysart, Fife, Scotland c. 1 Feb 1835 in Dysart, Fife, Scotland

Comparing them with the naming patterns

Naming Patterns 1700-1875

The first Son was named after the father’s father – this would have been Hannah’s husbands father, which would mean that John Moncrieff Milligan would be George Milligan (which as yet I have not been able to substantiate)

Second son named after mother’s father - David which I know to be correct

Third son named after the father - no third

Fourth son named after father’s eldest brother – no fourth

First daughter named after mother’s mother – Eliesbath, I have been told, is a pet form of the formal Elizabeth/Isabella is also the name of Hannah’s mother - Isabella

Second daughter named after father’s mother - Catherine (unfortunately not one of the names that I found through the IGI for the mother of David Bogie

Third daughter named after mother – Margaret, if we assume that Eliesbath is Isabella then to prevent duplication Margaret would have been named after her maternal aunt

Fourth daughter named after mother’s eldest sister – Janet (I have yet to locate Hannah's mothers family, so I can't verify whether this is correct or not)

I just don't have quite enough information to make it work unfortunately. However drawing a long bow from the above information it could mean that Hannah's parents were David Bogie and Catherine (as yet to be identified)

Very frustrating, what can I say an almost fit???

Thanks for your suggestion, I will keep on plodding
Sandra

Glen · Post by **Glen** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:34 am

I have a similar problem with the marriage of Younie (my great great grandfather) and Hood (my great great grandmother)

I've found two entries in the OPR Banns and Marraiges

The first is 11/12/1836 and shows Younie James and Helen Hood; Parish of Alves

The second of 31/12/1836 shows Younie James and then Hellen Hood/FR472; Parish of St Andrews Llanbryd (Moray)

I'm assuming both entries are or the same couple, although Helen has picked up an extra L in the second spelling

My questions are:
Why the two enries;
What does the Frame No. mean/refer to ?

I've only just started on tracing my Scottish ancestry, so please excuse my ignorance

Looking forward to a response

Rgds
Glen
Sydney Australia

WilmaM · Post by **WilmaM** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:50 am

Glen, Sarah answered your question above.

SarahND wrote:
I have seen many marriages listed twice in the OPRs. Since those records are "Banns and Marriages" it is usually the banns being called in two parishes. It is likely that the groom was from one of the locations and the bride from another-- or that they were working in one parish but came from another. Does this fit your couple?

All the best,
Sarah

I would guess that James was living in Alves and Helen in Llanbryd when they were about to be married.
Llanbryd is a pretty wee place by the way.

In the past spelling was really of little or no consequence, as many people couldn't read or write so it didn't matter one way or the other to them and also with different accents the writer put down what he heard. [more problematic with Irish born folks in Scotland].

And a very Warm Welcome to Talking Scot.

Post by **AndrewP** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:55 am

Hi Glen,

Welcome to TalkingScot.

It is fairly common to find two OPR entries for the same marriage. They represent the banns being called in each parish. The usual explanation is that the parishes were the home parishes for the bride and groom. The people of each parish had to be offered the chance to say if they knew of any legal reason why this couple should not be married.

I wouldn't be concerned about the spelling. Correctness of name spelling is more of a 20th century thing. Prior to that the spoken word was more important and when a written record was made, then the spelling was as believed to be correct on the day. It adds some variety to our searches for our ancestors, and a requirement for searching by wildcard, such as Hel*en to find Helen or Hellen.

The frame number is the position on the microfilm version of the records. It is normally quoted where the records are not in date sequence.

All the best,

AndrewP