This isn't one of mine - but caught my eye on an OPR page. The entry is of a Dalmeny 1746 baptism, and I thought it may interest people.
July 15th
Anna Kay lawful daughter of Robert Kay & Agnes Lindsay in Dalmeny was born upon the fifth instant & baptised this day at a dyet of Examination. Witnesses John Dason & Archibald Kay.
Anybody else got Dalmeny kin? And anybody want to take a stab at what a 'dyet of Examination' means in this context - presumably a Kirk Session assembly - at a guess, the parents were called before the Kirk Session to say if they were married or not after the birth of the child, or to be reprimanded...?
Jenny
'Dyet of Examination' - Dalmeny 1746 Kay and Lindsay
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jennyblain
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'Dyet of Examination' - Dalmeny 1746 Kay and Lindsay
http://wyrdswell.co.uk/ancestors
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paddyscar
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Hi Jenny:
This site gives several definitions and examples.
http://www.dsl.ac.uk/dsl/
1. A meeting by appointment or agreement for conference or settling of matters; a meeting or sitting of a council, etc.
additionally -
A church-meeting for worship or business.
Frances
This site gives several definitions and examples.
http://www.dsl.ac.uk/dsl/
1. A meeting by appointment or agreement for conference or settling of matters; a meeting or sitting of a council, etc.
additionally -
A church-meeting for worship or business.
Frances
John Kelly (b 22 Sep 1897) eldest child of John Kelly & Christina Lipsett Kelly of Glasgow
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jennyblain
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Hi Frances - i was trying to get at the meaning of this meeting in the context of a baptism as a curiosity... also to find if there were other people interested in Dalmeny at that time...
Do you have any examples of this usage - or maybe more detailed Kirk Session records? (I know that there are examples from other parishes.)
All best,
Jenny
Do you have any examples of this usage - or maybe more detailed Kirk Session records? (I know that there are examples from other parishes.)
All best,
Jenny
http://wyrdswell.co.uk/ancestors
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Currie
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Hello Jenny,
I’m afraid I’ve never heard of a Dyet or Diet of Examination but I would vote for this one being in the Church Meeting category.
Page 486 of this 1852 edition of the United Presbyterian Magazine has a description of a Diet of examination conducted in a barn in the parish of Denny in Stirlingshire around the year 1800. It sounds more like a religious rally attended by a great crowd of people, some of whom had to participate in a theological exercise, and conducted by a single pastor, rather than any sort of a detailed examination of an individual by a group of hierarchy.
Could the baptism simply have occurred at such a gathering without there being anything otherwise out of the ordinary about it?
http://www.google.com.au/books?id=0BAEA ... #PPA486,M1
The text (probably with some remaining OCR errors) reads as follows:
“Let the reader accompany me to one of Dr Start's examinations. The district is
an entirely rural one, — and one of the farmers has prepared his barn for the accommodation of the assembly. As the hour draws near, individuals, and groups of parents and children, may be observed advancing along various lines of road, and converging to the place of meeting. For a little space as they arrive, they may be noticed clustering around the house, exchanging friendly greetings, till the pastor's approach warns them to enter. The minister arrives and takes his place. Devotional exercises succeed, and voices of psalms ascend amid the pure and rugged roof- beams, — and solemn prayer invokes a blessing on the services of the day. The names of the examinable persons in the district are then read over, and each, in turn, repeats the answer to some question in the Shorter Catechism, — the gray-haired no more exempted than the young; the absentees being at the same time ascertained, and noted. The examinator returns to the head of the list, and calling again on the first examinee present, takes up some special subject in the wide range of theology, doctrinal or practical, and proposes a series of questions, tending to evolve, with impressive fulness, the teaching of Scripture regarding it. The questions are interspersed with copious, easy, and conversational exposition.
The auditor may note, besides, that these questions are not proposed for the purpose of putting the examined to the test, of eliciting the amount of their knowledge, or discovering their lack, but much more for the purpose of affording opportunity for familiar and pointed explanation. And yet the intelligent listener will observe that the queries are not all on the same level of facility, and the examination has not proceeded far before he discovers that the minister has in some way formed his estimate of the theological attainments of his people, and knows well when he may safely lead the answerer into deeper waters, and leave the exposition of some point in the system more to himself.
Moreover, the facility of response, even where the questions are simplest, and most
easily forecast their own proper answers, does not arise from the examinator confining himself to the more trodden common places of the subject, but from the skill with which one truth is made to grow out of another, and an obvious line of direction furnished for the guidance of the examined. With what minute and patient investigation the subject is pursued— what fulness of Scripture illustration is brought to bear upon it — with what treasures of well-digested instruction the people are fed, — will appear from some specimens of notes for examinations inserted in the Appendix. In this way, more than an hour has passed, and the list is but half exhausted — when there is a pause; and the children present are invited to approach the minister, and ranging them in a circle round him, he proceeds in turn to feed the lambs. Each is provided with a psalm or chapter, or portion of a chapter, committed to memory at home, and now repeated with tremulous awe, or gentle self-possession, or a courage which excitement has made eager; and, as he finishes what the minister is disposed to hear, receives some word of kind encouragement or needful monition. Some questions on the meaning of what has been repeated follow, and some kindly familiar enforcement of the truths therein taught.
Next, a question from the Shorter Catechism is proposed to each, and a few further interrogatories of a more general character conclude that part of the service. The youngsters retire to their seats, and the examination of the adults is resumed. At length the last name on the list has been called; and so have the questions been proportioned and allotted, that the subject of the day, or some part of it, has been fully discussed, and a complete view given of its various parts. In this exercise two, three, or perhaps four hours have passed away, and the gathering shadows of the winter's early eve — for the examinations were generally in winter — evince the lapse of time since the mid-day hour of convening. Devotional exercises close, — and with lingering salutations, and friendly inquiries between pastor and flock, the people betake themselves to their respective homes, having obtained a rich meal to strengthen them on their way through the wilderness."
Hope I’m on the right track,
Alan
I’m afraid I’ve never heard of a Dyet or Diet of Examination but I would vote for this one being in the Church Meeting category.
Page 486 of this 1852 edition of the United Presbyterian Magazine has a description of a Diet of examination conducted in a barn in the parish of Denny in Stirlingshire around the year 1800. It sounds more like a religious rally attended by a great crowd of people, some of whom had to participate in a theological exercise, and conducted by a single pastor, rather than any sort of a detailed examination of an individual by a group of hierarchy.
Could the baptism simply have occurred at such a gathering without there being anything otherwise out of the ordinary about it?
http://www.google.com.au/books?id=0BAEA ... #PPA486,M1
The text (probably with some remaining OCR errors) reads as follows:
“Let the reader accompany me to one of Dr Start's examinations. The district is
an entirely rural one, — and one of the farmers has prepared his barn for the accommodation of the assembly. As the hour draws near, individuals, and groups of parents and children, may be observed advancing along various lines of road, and converging to the place of meeting. For a little space as they arrive, they may be noticed clustering around the house, exchanging friendly greetings, till the pastor's approach warns them to enter. The minister arrives and takes his place. Devotional exercises succeed, and voices of psalms ascend amid the pure and rugged roof- beams, — and solemn prayer invokes a blessing on the services of the day. The names of the examinable persons in the district are then read over, and each, in turn, repeats the answer to some question in the Shorter Catechism, — the gray-haired no more exempted than the young; the absentees being at the same time ascertained, and noted. The examinator returns to the head of the list, and calling again on the first examinee present, takes up some special subject in the wide range of theology, doctrinal or practical, and proposes a series of questions, tending to evolve, with impressive fulness, the teaching of Scripture regarding it. The questions are interspersed with copious, easy, and conversational exposition.
The auditor may note, besides, that these questions are not proposed for the purpose of putting the examined to the test, of eliciting the amount of their knowledge, or discovering their lack, but much more for the purpose of affording opportunity for familiar and pointed explanation. And yet the intelligent listener will observe that the queries are not all on the same level of facility, and the examination has not proceeded far before he discovers that the minister has in some way formed his estimate of the theological attainments of his people, and knows well when he may safely lead the answerer into deeper waters, and leave the exposition of some point in the system more to himself.
Moreover, the facility of response, even where the questions are simplest, and most
easily forecast their own proper answers, does not arise from the examinator confining himself to the more trodden common places of the subject, but from the skill with which one truth is made to grow out of another, and an obvious line of direction furnished for the guidance of the examined. With what minute and patient investigation the subject is pursued— what fulness of Scripture illustration is brought to bear upon it — with what treasures of well-digested instruction the people are fed, — will appear from some specimens of notes for examinations inserted in the Appendix. In this way, more than an hour has passed, and the list is but half exhausted — when there is a pause; and the children present are invited to approach the minister, and ranging them in a circle round him, he proceeds in turn to feed the lambs. Each is provided with a psalm or chapter, or portion of a chapter, committed to memory at home, and now repeated with tremulous awe, or gentle self-possession, or a courage which excitement has made eager; and, as he finishes what the minister is disposed to hear, receives some word of kind encouragement or needful monition. Some questions on the meaning of what has been repeated follow, and some kindly familiar enforcement of the truths therein taught.
Next, a question from the Shorter Catechism is proposed to each, and a few further interrogatories of a more general character conclude that part of the service. The youngsters retire to their seats, and the examination of the adults is resumed. At length the last name on the list has been called; and so have the questions been proportioned and allotted, that the subject of the day, or some part of it, has been fully discussed, and a complete view given of its various parts. In this exercise two, three, or perhaps four hours have passed away, and the gathering shadows of the winter's early eve — for the examinations were generally in winter — evince the lapse of time since the mid-day hour of convening. Devotional exercises close, — and with lingering salutations, and friendly inquiries between pastor and flock, the people betake themselves to their respective homes, having obtained a rich meal to strengthen them on their way through the wilderness."
Hope I’m on the right track,
Alan
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jennyblain
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Fascinating, Alan!
This may indeed be the case - I checked if there was a marriage of these two in IGI and indeed there is - banns in both Dalmeny and Kirkliston, a very respectable 10 years previously
( 18 Nov 1735 in Dalmeny, 28 Nov 1735 in Kirkliston, so the marriage probably in the latter...)
So the context may be that of 'examination' of people's basic religious knowledge (and not a grilling of the poor couple).
It's another way, though, that the church exercised control...
Now to get back to 'mine' in the same parishes!
All best,
Jenny
This may indeed be the case - I checked if there was a marriage of these two in IGI and indeed there is - banns in both Dalmeny and Kirkliston, a very respectable 10 years previously
( 18 Nov 1735 in Dalmeny, 28 Nov 1735 in Kirkliston, so the marriage probably in the latter...)So the context may be that of 'examination' of people's basic religious knowledge (and not a grilling of the poor couple).
It's another way, though, that the church exercised control...
Now to get back to 'mine' in the same parishes!
All best,
Jenny
http://wyrdswell.co.uk/ancestors
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Anne H
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Interesting topic!
The one I have began with the Kirk Sessions held in Larbert Village then went onto Stirling Presbytery (I think in Falkirk), complete with witnesses in trying to determine paternity. Eventually from records found in the NAS, the supposed father gave in his defense and when it referred to 'dyet' I thought it was an old spelling for 'date'...
"I gave in a petition reclaiming against this interlocutor on the 10th of said month of September, excusing myself for not attending the dyet fixed for my examination on account of my being employed with my lint in the critical state of it above mentioned, and offering still to depone. The Justices gave no interlocutor whatever on this petition, but at a Court held on the 2d of November - no less than sixty-eight days after the above recited reference to my oath, and to which I was not summoned, the Petitioner appeared and represented that since the above reference by the Pursuer she has discovered that she will be able to prove a number of circumstances that will tend to criminate the Defender and therfore craves that the Justices will allow her a proof accordingly".
All so very interesting!
Regards,
Anne H
The one I have began with the Kirk Sessions held in Larbert Village then went onto Stirling Presbytery (I think in Falkirk), complete with witnesses in trying to determine paternity. Eventually from records found in the NAS, the supposed father gave in his defense and when it referred to 'dyet' I thought it was an old spelling for 'date'...
"I gave in a petition reclaiming against this interlocutor on the 10th of said month of September, excusing myself for not attending the dyet fixed for my examination on account of my being employed with my lint in the critical state of it above mentioned, and offering still to depone. The Justices gave no interlocutor whatever on this petition, but at a Court held on the 2d of November - no less than sixty-eight days after the above recited reference to my oath, and to which I was not summoned, the Petitioner appeared and represented that since the above reference by the Pursuer she has discovered that she will be able to prove a number of circumstances that will tend to criminate the Defender and therfore craves that the Justices will allow her a proof accordingly".
All so very interesting!
Regards,
Anne H