Gilfillan and McAlpine

crayspond · Post by **crayspond** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:01 pm

Hi All at TS,

I am tracing a part of my tree in Stirling and i am sure i have the right family on the LDS family search, however the mother's name appears wrong

I have the death cert for Peter Hardie - he died age 62 on 23/9/1882 in Milton Glasgow. On the 1851 census his birth place is Strathblane Stirling (age is 37 on census).
His father is John Hardie and mother -looks like Jane McAlpine both deceased. (from Peter's death cert).
I cannot find John and Jane's marriage on SP, I also can't find Peter's birth details - which i estimate about 1814.
However, on LDS there is a John Hardie and Janet Gilfillan in Strathblane with a son Peter and a son John - see below

1. PETER HARDIE - International Genealogical Index - British Isles
Gender: Male Christening: 19 OCT 1813 Strathblane, Stirling, Scotland 2. JOHN HARDIE - International Genealogical Index - British Isles
Gender: Male Christening: 18 MAR 1810 Strathblane, Stirling, Scotland

Looking back to my SP searches i see the Peter birth but with the Gilfillan mother - which i had discounted.

Could the name be transcribed wrongly? if anyone can see anything on ancestry i would be obliged.

Thanks
Ailsa

crayspond · Post by **crayspond** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:18 pm

Me again,

I think i have found out what has happened myself. I thought i had came across the Gilfillan name somewhere before so i had a look back through my file.
Peter Hardie was married to Janet Hunter and i happen to have her death cert also. Her father was Robert Hunter and her mother was Agnes Gilfillan.
Could be that the witness got the names mixed up?
Back to the drawing board.........

Ailsa

Post by **paddyscar** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:17 pm

Hi Ailsa:

On SP it's not common. Other databases may have been compiled using volunteers who were neither familiar with the handwriting, nor local names and places.

Could be that the witness got the names mixed up?

It is not uncommon for information to be incorrect on a death certificate as it's an emotional time; the person may have submitted what they 'think' is the correct information; other issues arise when it is a neighbour/institution reporting the death.

Frances

Lorna Allison · Post by **Lorna Allison** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:15 pm

Hello Ailsa

I am NOT AT ALL a TS expert but here I am putting in my "tuppence worth".

I have just been researching a Border Veitch connection in my family and found that while my Wm. Veitch lived and died as a Veitch he was born illegitimately and registered as Hoggarth. His mother married a Veitch 6 yrs. after his birth, he lived with them for a while but then went back to stay with his Hoggarth grandparents. While he may have been the husband's son I suppose, his grandmother was also a Veitch so I reckon his father will remain uncertain. On his death cert his father was reg. as Robert "Veitch" whereas his grandfather was Robert Hoggarth and his step father was John Veitch.

What I wonder is, could your Peter have been caught up in a similar tangle?

Regards

Lorna

Lorna Allison · Post by **Lorna Allison** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:19 pm

Me again. I should also have mentioned that on the death cert. for William the mother was noted as "unknown".

Lorna

trish1 · Post by **trish1** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:49 pm

Here is the census information that I found - couldn't find 1871

1881 Glasgow St George
61, birthplace Strathblane Stirlingshire, blacksmith
Peter Hardie 61
Janet Hardie 66

1861 Glasgow
age 48, birthplace Milness, Stirlingshire, blacksmith
Peter 48
Janet 48
John 20
Janet 18
Agness 15

1851 glasgow
age 37 birthplace Strathblane, Stirlingshire, blacksmith
Peter 37
Janet 38
Robert 13
John 11
Janet 9
Agnes 6

1841 Glasgow St George in the Fields
age 25 born in county[sic] blacksmith
Peter 25
Janet 25
Robert 3
John 1

The parent names are interesting as they seem to have done a minor reverse on the naming patterns. From your death certs
1st son = mother's father 2nd son - father's father
1st daughter - father's mother 2nd dau = mother's mother

Doubt it impacts the surnames but a minor change to the "rules"

crayspond · Post by **crayspond** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:45 pm

Hi,
Thanks for the replies
Frances - I know myself when i have had to confirm a relative's parents i had to double check my details so it could have quite easily happened (hopefully not as it's confusing enough!).
Lorna - your post made for interesting reading, and in doing my research over the years i have came across a few strange change of names in my family. I will bear it in mind although sometimes the further back you go the less info it gives on parish records.
Trish1 - thanks for the census details i had 1841 1851 and 1881 but not 1861 or 1871.
In the 1861 it says Milness Stirlingshire - i can't find this place. Do you think it is wrongly transcribed ?
Can you see any sign of John Hardie in 1841 age about 45 -55 occ (looks like forester ) and Agnes his wife.

Thanks to all,

Ailsa

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:22 pm

Hi Ailsa

Can you see any sign of John Hardie in 1841 age about 45 -55 occ (looks like forester ) and Agnes his wife.

If the above are likely to be in Scotland for 1841, you could try a look on Freecen - Freecen is always worth checking. Stirlingshire is completed for 1841 on there.

Best wishes
Lesley

crayspond · Post by **crayspond** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 11:05 pm

Hi Lesley,

You read my mind - i immediately looked on freecen but no luck with John Hardie - however i looked at Robert Hunter and came up with

Piece: SCT1841/644 Place: Gorbals -Lanarkshire Enumeration District: 93
Civil Parish: Gorbals Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Hutchisontown
Folio: 92 Page: 19
Address: Lawmoor Place

Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks HUNTER Robert M 60 Calico Printer Journeyman Outside Census County (1841) HUNTER Janet (Sn) F 60 Outside Census County (1841) HUNTER Janet (Jn) F 20 Cotton Power Loom Weaver Lanarkshire HUNTER Archd M 15 Cabinet Wright Apprentice Lanarkshire HUNTER James M 14 Clerk Lanarkshire Page: 92/20 HUNTER Deborah F 13 Cotton Power Loom Weaver Lanarkshire MCEWAN Cath F 20 Cotton Power Loom Weaver Lanarkshire

Robert Hunter was Janet Hardie's father, Peter Hardie's father in law and he is recorded as a Calico printer on his daughter Janet's death cert.
I need to do more research on this but it may be John Hardie and family moved to Glasgow and i maybe should be looking at Glasgow for his death cert.
I will continue looking tomorrow.
Thanks all for the help,

Ailsa

trish1 · Post by **trish1** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:12 am

I would assume Milness is either a small locality within Strathblane or a misspelling of same - Andrew would no doubt find it - if it exists - as every other census gives Strathblane - probably a red herring, but may be useful to find it?

1841 There is a John Hardie, corn merchant, 55 with wife Janet 40, children aged 18 to 1 at North St West lothian

1841 John Hardie 55, ag lab in Falkirk Stirlingshire with Janet Watt 25 (daughter perhaps) and James Watt aged 1

The only John I see in Lanarkshire - Gorbals - is 45 wife given as Mrs Hardie aged 40 - occupation Iron founder

I don't see a John and Agnes together - sorry

Trish