Tracing back with OPR records .....

[Rab]

I have personally come to a bit of a stand still tracing my family line back when I entered the OPR era. Due to the lack of information in the entries I've been left scratching my head as to how other people are able to trace back further the the 19th century.

For example a marriage certificate only gives the locations and names of the people being married. Therefore there is no way of confirming the birth of these people as there is no parent entry to cross reference. It's fine if they died after 1855 but if not then I can't see any way to progress.

Is that the case with most people or am I missing something?

Cheers for any tips in advance.

[Ina]

Hi Rab,

That's also been my experience. If they died before 1855 it's very hard to trace them. I'd like to know how some are able to go back to the 1400"s.

Happy searching.

Ina

[Rab]

My own thought is that it may have something to do with grave searching and/or mort cloths. Hopefully not, I hope there is an easier way that I have just not read about so far.

[JimM]

Hi Rab and Ina

I'm quite sure that OPR's don't go back as far as the 1400's, so that's probably not a realistic target for most people. I find that I am searching mostly around the mid 1700's.

An example I have is a death cert for someone who was 83 when they died in 1863. this means he was born in 1780, a search of the parish records confirms the parents names and shows that they married in 1775 and were born in 1752 and 1756.

There may be times when you have to search "sideways" in order to go back... For a death just prior to 1855 look for any siblings who may have died after 1855..

[DavidWW]

Hi Rab,

That's also been my experience. If they died before 1855 it's very hard to trace them. I'd like to know how some are able to go back to the 1400"s.

Happy searching.

Ina

The most likely way is finding a connection into an aristocratic family for whom a tree already exists, but then how can the accuracy be checked back to the 1400s (OK Balfour Paul's The Scots Peerage can be consulted but, again, how can the information be verified?)

The earliest OPR is 1553, but most don't start until much later. The earliest sasines (property transfers) are 1599, and the earliest Register of Deeds 1554. The latter two can be difficult to exceptionally difficult to search in the earliest records.

Finally the earliest Retours of Services of Heirs are 1544 (inheritance of property), and the very earliest testamentary records (wills) are 1514, with only two other commissariots having extant records prior to the Reformation in 1564.....

Without the help of information from sasines, retours, or testamentary records, never mind deeds, anyone claiming a tree back to the 1400's will be met by a raised eyebrow on my part, and great interest in seeing the information on the sources .........

Without the help of such sources, anything better than probable links via the OPRs back to the late 1600s/early 1700s is unlikely.

David

PS What follows is a pure spoof, but illustrates the manner in which, in the extreme, it could be possible to put together a tree that goes back even earlier than the 1400S !!! It was originally posted on soc.gen.britain some years ago. While it is exaggeration it is at the same time a reflection of the way some people appear to be quite happy to search, but, I'm sure, not including anyone on TS !



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[scooter]

Genius!

Judging by some of the family homepages I've seen on the web in recent times, this seems to be a perfectly acceptable way of tracing your roots back to obscure sixth century Danish princes - and the like.

That certainly brightened up, what is already a very golden morning in the Garden of England.

Cheers David.

[Rab]

Class post David, a very enjoyable read.

[StewL]

Brilliant Davie

But I have a problem with your post. Especially the disparaging way you mentioned Frederick the Flatulent of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.
I have it on very good authority, and from my family, that I am directly descended from this gentleman

The proof lies in the very term Frederick the Flatulent

Nice post though, I think at this time I am nearing my 1700's limit on my lot of long lost and departed ancestors.

[sheilajim]

Great Post

Last June, when I told my sister that I was getting interested in geneology, she told me with a perfectly straight face that her Mother-in-Law had traced her family back to 13th century Norway.( Her Mother-in Law's family were Norwegian).

I don't know anything about Norways records, but told my sister that records for the average person, don't usually go back that far. "Oh", she said. " They get the information out of old Bibles".

I think that the earliest Bibles were printed in the late 15th century. Even then, they must have been bought only by the wealthy and literate. I doubt that many people had a bible to write in till the late 18th century, if then.



Sheila

[DavidWW]

...snipped............I don't know anything about Norways records, but told my sister that records for the average person, don't usually go back that far. "Oh", she said. " They get the information out of old Bibles".

I think that the earliest Bibles were printed in the late 15th century. Even then, they must have been bought only by the wealthy and literate. I doubt that many people had a bible to write in till the late 18th century, if then.....snipped............. Sheila

Hi Sheila

Other countries, other systems, but based on "Angus Baxter's "In Search of Your European Roots" I'd comment as follows.

The earliest Norwegian Kirkebøker, the equivalent of the Scottish OPRs go back to the early 1600s, but, as in Scotland, some only started much later.

That written, it wouldn't surprise me if there were family bible records going back even earlier, and while your comments on the date of the earliest printed bibles are quite correct, it wouldn't at all surprise me if it was the case that, whenever a family did obtain a bible, they recorded in it not only the current generations, but also a number of earlier generations.

In addition to the Kirkebøker there are also Bygdebøker which give very detailed information on farms and families in Norwegian parishes. You would need to contact StatsArchiv in Oslo and maybe the 6 regional Statsarchiv in Hamar, Kristiansund, Stavanger, Bergen, Trondheim and Tromsø to check the situation for "your" parishes.

In the first instance I'd suggest that you contact riksarkivet@riksarkivaren.dep.no

David