OPR Death .....

[Rab]

This will probably sound like a silly question so hopefully it will be an easy one to answer. Are there death records in existance pre-1855 and they just have not been indexes? Alternatively are there no death reaords at all for this period?

While I'm posting silly questions can I ask if anyone has had any experience of mort cloths?

[AndrewP]

Hi Rab,

It's not a silly question. But, sadly, the answer is that OPR deaths are very patchy, and so far have not been indexed. The main index of the OPRs is the IGI which was made by the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints (LDS for short). Their main interests concern baptisms and marriages, so the deaths were not included in the main IGI Some deaths are to be found there, but these are submitted entries, rather than those from the records.

The deaths that are in the OPRs are mostly the accounts for the hiring of the mortcloths. The information given is most often the name of the deceased only and a date. Very few have any more information such as an address or any other names.

I believe there is an intention for GROS to create such an index, but it is at the far end of the priorities. Even when done, I think it will be of limited use unless your ancestor has a name which is unusual in that parish.

While I'm posting silly questions can I ask if anyone has had any experience of mort cloths?

Not in this life.

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

[scooter]

Hi Rab,

If you happen to be searching for pre-1855 deaths in Fife you may be in luck. The Fife Family History Society have a very useful pre-SR death index for sale. Of course it's never going to cover everyone who died, and as Andrew has pointed out, the information on the mortcloth entries is pretty sparse. However, they have compiled a lot of information from other sources which is rather useful. http://www.fifefhs.org/

Cheers,

Scott

[scooter]

P.S. I should probably point out that I'm not a salesperson for the FFHS, or even a member!

[Tracey]

Hello Rab

I found this as you do as you wander through links and forget where you started from or what you were doing or looking for in the first place and mort cloths caught my eye ! only this says mortcoth ?

http://www.ktb.net/~dwills/scotref/13302-bmdtables.htm

Havent got a clue what it is part of but will go back and find it

[DavidWW]

There are two relevant projects on the go.

The first is the Scottish NBI (National Burial Indexes) project, which is going very slowly as it's often not the highest priority for FHSs. Since OPR death records are particularly good in Fife the local FHS has given it a higher prioity and produced a CD at least a year ago.

I read somewhere recently that some fiches for northern parishes in Argyll had been produced.

The second project is a joint effort between GSU/SCAN and NAS, and involves digitising and indexing many kirk session records, - which often contain info on burials and mortcloths, - but this is a massive project involving around 4 million images from memory, many from delicate records, and it could take a year or several before anything becomes available on-line, - availability is likely to be similar to the testaments project.

David

[nelmit]

This will probably sound like a silly question so hopefully it will be an easy one to answer. Are there death records in existance pre-1855 and they just have not been indexes? Alternatively are there no death reaords at all for this period?

While I'm posting silly questions can I ask if anyone has had any experience of mort cloths?

Hello Rab,

While searching the OPR's for marriages and births, looking for more info than the IGI offers, I often see deaths recorded in that parish but have never found time to devote myself to the task of looking through them.


If you have a rough idea of time and place (West of Scotland) you could browse the films held in 'The Mitchell'. Some of them are very hard to read so all you may come away with is a headache.

DWW gave interesting info back in April -

The location of the burial was recorded only on death register entries for 1855 to 1860. Before and after that, if there is a record, it's likely to be in the church records, but not reliably so. In the pre-1855 kirk session records there might only be a record of the hiring out of the mort cloth.

In rural areas there's normally only a small number of possibilities, but watch out for the strong Scottish tradition of burial taking place in the parish of birth. Obviously it's more problematic in cities, but that's balanced in Glasgow by the business being dominated by one company of funeral directors, Wylie & Lochhead, the records of which are held by Glasgow University Archives.

Again in Glasgow The Glasgow and Family History Room at the Mitchell Library holds the records of some twenty Glasgow cemeteries covering the period from the 18th century to the 1950's. There are a few also in the Glasgow City Archives, as well as lair plans and registers of burials in intra-mural burial grounds from 1870 to 1950. Records are arranged in chronological order and there are no indexes! A comprehensive listing, including location of registers and monumental inscriptions can be found in:- Burial Grounds of Glasgow: a brief guide for the genealogist by J Willing and J S Fairie - published by the Glasgow & West of Scotland Family History Society 2nd Revised Edition published in 1997.

Additional cemetery registers for Glasgow are kept by:- Cemeteries and Crematoria Section, Parks Department, City of Glasgow Council, 2 Port Dundas Place, GLASGOW G2 3LB (telephone 0141-333 0800)

It's well worth while investigating the similar situation elsewhere, - I realise that Glasgow may not be of too much assistance, but quote the above as an example.

I have a vague memory from a few years back of there being good cemetery/lair records out your way but can't recall if it was Greenock or Port Glasgow ..........

In the Libraries section on this site you'll find details of the various councils listed - http://www.talkingscot.com/links/libraries.htm . The contact details are for the libraries/archives but if they are not the correct point of contact in this context they should be able to re-direct you.

There is a Scottish National Burials Index (NBI) project but it's not always the highest priority for the local FHS, given the relevant paucity of the information in the OPRs and kirk session records. (Most OPRs don't contain much if any death/mortcloth info, - the OPR index and IGI cover only births/baptisms and banns/marriages.) A CD has been published by Fife FHS covering Fife - the local records are probably the best in terms of date and geographical coverage - and and I recall seeing something about some fiches relating to Argyll being published recently. Best idea is to contact the FHS covering the area of interest for the up-to-date position. See http://www.talkingscot.com/links/fhs-links.htm

And we haven't even covered MIs - monumental, including tombstone, inscriptions. For well over 100 years volunteers have been recording these, and many are published, but don't get too excited about your ancestors being recorded, - the combination of the cost of a headstone and the deterioration of the stone and inscription mean that in the early 1800s and before only a few percent of people are recorded in the listings that exist.
Anette M

[Rab]

Thanks for all the posts. I've read through the information provided and now have a clearer picture. It's a shame that the records are not more readily available nor informative but that's life I suppose. If it was easy then I suppose we'd all have gotten bored of researching our family by now.

Happy hunting!

Rab