I am trying to find my grandparents marraige certificate could be found. My father was born in Glasgow in 1922, to Robert Wilson and Sarah Todd.
Having found their marraige certificate it lists as Sarahs parents Christopher and Margaret Todd nee Butterworth. Christopher Todd has Carter under his name and Margaret was deceased by 1917
, at the time of the marraige.
The problem is that I cant find anything on Scotlands People, iether way we go from birth, death or marraige.
My father was adopted by my aunt sometime after birth and everything was kept secret.
We dont know if the Todds came from Scotland, and as all the people that knew are now deceased I dont know where to look next.
I have only been doing my family tree for about a month so any advise would be gratefully recieved.
Anne.
advice needed .....
Moderator: Global Moderators
-
anner
- Posts: 131
- Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:37 pm
- Location: Farnborough, Hampshire
advice needed .....
Last edited by anner on Sun Feb 05, 2006 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
JimM
- Posts: 304
- Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 4:11 pm
- Location: Scotland
Hi Anne
there does not appear to be a death record for a Margaret Todd/Butterworth on SP
What age is Sarah Todd on her marriage cert?
If she was born on or before 1901 you may be able to find her on the census.. this should give you a clue as to her birth place.
Carter below Christopher's name is his occupation.... a sort of van driver delivery man of his day
Good luck
Jim
there does not appear to be a death record for a Margaret Todd/Butterworth on SP
What age is Sarah Todd on her marriage cert?
If she was born on or before 1901 you may be able to find her on the census.. this should give you a clue as to her birth place.
Carter below Christopher's name is his occupation.... a sort of van driver delivery man of his day
Good luck
Jim
researching
McIntyre, Menzies, Cowley, Pearson, Copland, McCammond, Forbes, Edgar etc. in Scotland
Skinner in Northumberland
McIntyre, Menzies, Cowley, Pearson, Copland, McCammond, Forbes, Edgar etc. in Scotland
Skinner in Northumberland
-
anner
- Posts: 131
- Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:37 pm
- Location: Farnborough, Hampshire
Thanks Jim Sarahs age was 27 born 1891. I have had no luck with the census at all. I have also tried on non scottish but havent found Margarets death cert. or any of them on the census. Each time I think I have a match it is wrong for the ages. I do know that when my dad was born it was at Muse Lane (now Larbart St) but cant find anything after that. 
-
JimM
- Posts: 304
- Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 4:11 pm
- Location: Scotland
Hi Anne
The English 1901 Census for the civil parish of York has,
Sarah Todd age 9
Margaret Todd age 39 laundress
Christopher Todd age 42 coalcarter
unfortunately no way to find out if these three are on the same page and related without paying
Jim
The English 1901 Census for the civil parish of York has,
Sarah Todd age 9
Margaret Todd age 39 laundress
Christopher Todd age 42 coalcarter
unfortunately no way to find out if these three are on the same page and related without paying
Jim
researching
McIntyre, Menzies, Cowley, Pearson, Copland, McCammond, Forbes, Edgar etc. in Scotland
Skinner in Northumberland
McIntyre, Menzies, Cowley, Pearson, Copland, McCammond, Forbes, Edgar etc. in Scotland
Skinner in Northumberland
-
MaryE
- Posts: 105
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:53 pm
Hello Anne
Hmmm ... interesting one ....
If Sarah was married in 1917 and was 27 at this point, she would have been born 1889/1890 depending on just where her birthday fell in the year - always assuming she was honest about her age of course
Since you seem to have had a good look in the Scottish records via SP I thought I'd have a run at the English censuses, especially as Butterworth doesn't seem to be a particularly Scottish name.
I started with 1901 and looked for Sarah Todd born 1890 +/- 1 anywhere in England. There were about a dozen hits plus a few just outside this range so I flicked through them to see if any of these had the right parents - you can 'view other family members' without downloading the image so it's quick and easy.
None of them had parents Christopher and Margaret but one did have a father called Christopher with mother Maria. It didn't seem all that likely but there were a couple of possibilities:
1. Margaret might have been abbreviated as Margt and if the handwriting was poor it might have been mis-indexed as Maria
2. Margaret is given as deceased on Sarah's marriage cert - if her mother had died when she was a baby Sarah might easily have not been too sure of the name.
I had a look at the image and confirmed that it was definitely Maria so that was disappointing. They were all bizarrely indexed as being born in Cumberland, York but the image showed that this was just laziness on the ennumerator's part - ditto marks halfway down the page under Yorkshire then ignoring a single entry of Cumberland with no parish name written right across the column about halfway down with the ditto marks continuing afterwards.
1901 Census Yorkshire
RG13/4440 - Reg Dist York - Sub Reg Dist Micklegate
Enum Dist 1 - Folio 21 - Page 33
Schedule 224
Tanner Street
Christopher Todd - Head - M - 42 - Coalcarter - born Yorkshire, York
Maria Todd – Wife – M – 40 - born Yorkshire, York
Eliza Todd – Dau – S – 13 - born Yorkshire, York
Arthur Todd – Son – S – 10 - born Yorkshire, York
Sarah Todd – Dau – S – 9 - born Yorkshire, York
Clara Todd – Dau – S – 4 - born Yorkshire, Stockton
(None of the children given as ‘scholar’ but presumably all were at school except perhaps Clara.)
So we’ve got a Sarah with roughly the right birth date, with a father called Christopher whose occupation of coalcarter would fit with Sarah’s marriage cert. But the mother is Maria not Margaret.
Still thinking that Maria might be a mistake I had a look back for Christopher in 1891 – Sarah would not be on that but the older children should be so it would be a chance to check the mother’s name. I found them without any difficulty – clearly the right family because the older children are right but mother is still Maria. However, Christopher is given as ‘son-in-law’ and just look at the full household entry …..
1891 Census Yorkshire
RG12/3892 – Reg Dist York – Sub Reg Dist Walmgate
Enum Dist 13 – Folio 114 – Page 23
Schedule 141
16 Lower Wesley Place
John Butterworth – Head – M – 59 – Painter – born Yorkshire, York
Sarah Butterworth – Wife – M – 59 - born Yorkshire, York
George Butterworth – Son – S – 25 – Painters Labourer - born Yorkshire, York
Lily Butterworth – Dau – S – 19 – Confectioner Lozenge Hand - born Yorkshire, York
Sarah Butterworth – Dau – S – 17 – Confectioner Lozenge Hand - born Yorkshire, York
Clara Butterworth – Dau – S – 14 – Scholar - born Yorkshire, York
Richard Butterworth – Dau – S – 12 – Scholar - born Yorkshire, York
Christopher Todd – Son-in-law – M – 30 – Labourer - born Yorkshire, York
Maria Todd – Dau-in-law – M – 31 - born Yorkshire, York
Eliza Todd – Grand Dau – S – 3 - born Yorkshire, York
Arthur Todd – Grand Son – S – 1 - born Yorkshire, York
Sarah’s marriage cert showed her mother’s maiden name as Butterworth – this surely must be the right Christopher Todd despite the fact that the wife is Maria. You've even got the fact that Maria's mother and one of her sisters is called Sarah. Maria should presumably be shown as daughter rather than daughter-in-law but that’s a minor point, as is the fact that Christopher and Maria’s age is not absolutely spot-on when compared with the 1901 census – we all know about census ages and their variations
I’ll check back in the earlier censuses tomorrow.
Mary
Hmmm ... interesting one ....
If Sarah was married in 1917 and was 27 at this point, she would have been born 1889/1890 depending on just where her birthday fell in the year - always assuming she was honest about her age of course
Since you seem to have had a good look in the Scottish records via SP I thought I'd have a run at the English censuses, especially as Butterworth doesn't seem to be a particularly Scottish name.
I started with 1901 and looked for Sarah Todd born 1890 +/- 1 anywhere in England. There were about a dozen hits plus a few just outside this range so I flicked through them to see if any of these had the right parents - you can 'view other family members' without downloading the image so it's quick and easy.
None of them had parents Christopher and Margaret but one did have a father called Christopher with mother Maria. It didn't seem all that likely but there were a couple of possibilities:
1. Margaret might have been abbreviated as Margt and if the handwriting was poor it might have been mis-indexed as Maria
2. Margaret is given as deceased on Sarah's marriage cert - if her mother had died when she was a baby Sarah might easily have not been too sure of the name.
I had a look at the image and confirmed that it was definitely Maria so that was disappointing. They were all bizarrely indexed as being born in Cumberland, York but the image showed that this was just laziness on the ennumerator's part - ditto marks halfway down the page under Yorkshire then ignoring a single entry of Cumberland with no parish name written right across the column about halfway down with the ditto marks continuing afterwards.
1901 Census Yorkshire
RG13/4440 - Reg Dist York - Sub Reg Dist Micklegate
Enum Dist 1 - Folio 21 - Page 33
Schedule 224
Tanner Street
Christopher Todd - Head - M - 42 - Coalcarter - born Yorkshire, York
Maria Todd – Wife – M – 40 - born Yorkshire, York
Eliza Todd – Dau – S – 13 - born Yorkshire, York
Arthur Todd – Son – S – 10 - born Yorkshire, York
Sarah Todd – Dau – S – 9 - born Yorkshire, York
Clara Todd – Dau – S – 4 - born Yorkshire, Stockton
(None of the children given as ‘scholar’ but presumably all were at school except perhaps Clara.)
So we’ve got a Sarah with roughly the right birth date, with a father called Christopher whose occupation of coalcarter would fit with Sarah’s marriage cert. But the mother is Maria not Margaret.
Still thinking that Maria might be a mistake I had a look back for Christopher in 1891 – Sarah would not be on that but the older children should be so it would be a chance to check the mother’s name. I found them without any difficulty – clearly the right family because the older children are right but mother is still Maria. However, Christopher is given as ‘son-in-law’ and just look at the full household entry …..
1891 Census Yorkshire
RG12/3892 – Reg Dist York – Sub Reg Dist Walmgate
Enum Dist 13 – Folio 114 – Page 23
Schedule 141
16 Lower Wesley Place
John Butterworth – Head – M – 59 – Painter – born Yorkshire, York
Sarah Butterworth – Wife – M – 59 - born Yorkshire, York
George Butterworth – Son – S – 25 – Painters Labourer - born Yorkshire, York
Lily Butterworth – Dau – S – 19 – Confectioner Lozenge Hand - born Yorkshire, York
Sarah Butterworth – Dau – S – 17 – Confectioner Lozenge Hand - born Yorkshire, York
Clara Butterworth – Dau – S – 14 – Scholar - born Yorkshire, York
Richard Butterworth – Dau – S – 12 – Scholar - born Yorkshire, York
Christopher Todd – Son-in-law – M – 30 – Labourer - born Yorkshire, York
Maria Todd – Dau-in-law – M – 31 - born Yorkshire, York
Eliza Todd – Grand Dau – S – 3 - born Yorkshire, York
Arthur Todd – Grand Son – S – 1 - born Yorkshire, York
Sarah’s marriage cert showed her mother’s maiden name as Butterworth – this surely must be the right Christopher Todd despite the fact that the wife is Maria. You've even got the fact that Maria's mother and one of her sisters is called Sarah. Maria should presumably be shown as daughter rather than daughter-in-law but that’s a minor point, as is the fact that Christopher and Maria’s age is not absolutely spot-on when compared with the 1901 census – we all know about census ages and their variations
I’ll check back in the earlier censuses tomorrow.
Mary
-
MaryE
- Posts: 105
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:53 pm