St Andrews Deeds .....

[mmuir]

While browsing the web I found this in St Andrews Deeds found at http://www.fifefhs.org/Records/Deeds/standrews.htm :

PEATTIE, JANET: relict of Henry Adamson, land-labourer in St Andrews; Disp & Deed of Settlement in favour of Elizabeth Dalrymple, dau of James Dsalrymple, formerly of Nether Magus, "now residing with me in St Andrews," and failing her, her natural son, James Dalrymple, + legacies to Ann Peattie, dau of her nephew, John Peattie, now servant to John Ewan at Backmuir of Cassingray; 10 Nov 1812 [B65/7/1 fol 89-91; B65/22/34]

I think this is my James Dalrymple's mother (I know James' dalrymple mother is Elizabeth Dalrymple, from James's tailor apprentice (also from the fife site) In 1851, there is a Elizabeth Wemyss living with James as a 'relation'. I found an Elizabeth Dalrymple marrying Charles Wemyss and they lived a few houses away from James in the 1941 census) From the 1851 census of Elizabeth Wemyss was born in Ceres and born abt 1777

I have a few questions,
1) Who would this Janet Peattie be and what exactly was she giving Elizabeth?

2) From google the only mention of Nether Magus is in Ceres so this seems to fit. Is Nether Magus a farm or village?

3) I have looked at Ceres records and I can't find a Elizabeth born to a James Dalrymple. Unfortuately Elizabeth Wemyss died in 1851 as did her son

4) Where do I go next?

Mary Muir
mmuir@aebc.com

[LesleyB]

Hi Mary
Looks like this record is held in the archives at St Andrews University.

My understanding of it would be that Janet Peattie, the widow of Henry Adamson (who was a land-labourer in St Andrews) had left her worldly goods to Elizabeth Dalrymple, the daughter of James D. I think the following bit means that Elizabeth Dalrymple is currently with Janet Peattie in St Andrews (but I could be wrong!) Should Elizabeth D. not be able to accept (e.g. if she should die before Janet Peattie) then the money/property is to go to Elizabeth's natural son, also called James Dalrymple. In addition, there are also some legacies (probably money, might be property?) to Ann Peattie, the dau of Janet Peattie's nephew, John Peattie, who is currently a servant to John Ewan at Backmuir of Cassingray.

1) Who would this Janet Peattie be and what exactly was she giving Elizabeth?

From this extract you can't tell if there is any family relationship between Janet Peattie & Elizabeth Dalrymple. She migth just be a faithful servant - maybe Janet Peattie has no surviving close family other than the daughter of her nephew? What she wa leaving to Elizabeth will be detailed in the document - it might be money, property, land, furniture, clothes, plates, cutlery & other household "plenishings" - all or any of these things! Basically, her "estate" - whatever that consisted of.

2) From google the only mention of Nether Magus is in Ceres so this seems to fit. Is Nether Magus a farm or village?

Without looking at a map, but knowing the area, I'd guess Nether Magus is a farm. I'll check later & get back to you. Magus Moor is on the old road from Ceres to St Andrews.
later:
http://www.fifefhs.org/Records/Directory/ceres.htm
FARMERS lists Bruce, James, Nether Magus - so looks like it is a farm. There is a farm Upper Magus showing on the modern OS map to the west of Magus moor. I'd expect Nether Magus to be downhill from there and indeed there is a farm now called Nether Magask on the Ceres to St Andrews Road. Upper Magus shows on a map as Upper Magask on the "Vision of Britain" site. http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/ so I think thats your place - its near Blebo Craigs.

3) I have looked at Ceres records and I can't find a Elizabeth born to a James Dalrymple. Unfortuately Elizabeth Wemyss died in 1851 as did her son

A James seems to be ELizabeth's father, but James is also the name of Elizabeth's illegitimate son.

4) Where do I go next?

Possibly contact St Andrews University Muniments and ask how much it would be to photocopy the document or send you the document in jpeg format. (they offer this service but do charge for it - charge will depend how long the document is)
http://specialcollections.st-and.ac.uk/muniments.htm
Its difficult to tell how much nore inforamation the document holds without seeing it. It may be short, to the point, and not give much more than the summary you already have, but sometimes this type of document can be quite lengthy and between all the standard "legal speak" there can be some wee gems of information often accompanied by fascinating detail e.g. recenlty I found this line in a similar document, listing posessions: "...bed and bedding of cloathes and some old ones not worth anything"

Best wishes
Lesley

[mmuir]

Hi Lesley

I was inclined that it was a farm.

I will look in to seeing if there is more in St Andrews. The only bonus in this record is that it confirms that he was alive in 1812. From the census I have estimated his birth to be in 1811 and he said he was born in St Andrews and From this his mother was living with this Janet Peattie in St Andrews. You would think a 'natural' child would be mentioned

Another question what is a Disp & Deed of Settlement?

Thanks
Mary

[LesleyB]

Hi Mary
A quick guide to willls & the like can be found here:
http://www.nas.gov.uk/guides/wills.asp

Can a will be used to transfer land or buildings?
Before 1868, wills could transfer only moveable property (money, clothes, household goods etc), while land and buildings could be inherited either by the separate retour (or services of heirs) procedure or by the mechanism of a trust disposition and settlement (sometimes called a 'deed of settlement').

and here too:
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/conte ... x.aspx?118

Are a will and a testament the same thing?
No. A will was the document drawn up by an individual wishing to settle his or her affairs prior to death. It clearly set down instructions as to the disposal of the deceased's possessions. It was variously termed "Latter Will and Legacie", "Last Will and Testament", "Latter Will and Testament", "Disposition", "Settlement" and "Disposition and Settlement". A testament, however, was the legal document drawn up after a person died, and its sole purpose was to enable the court to confirm an executor who would be responsible for winding-up the deceased's affairs.

Here is nore info too about the Archives in St Andrews - the munimenets one may only be concerned with those documents relating directly to the University.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/arch ... asp?LR=227
Best wishes
Lesley

[Fordycer]

llo Mary

I've just seen your post about Elizabeth Dalrymple.

I'm looking for an Elizabeth Dalrymple of St Andrews, Fife too, without success so far.

My gtgtgdfather John Hain was born abt 1813/14 in St Andrews, Fife.
He moved away early on, for he married in 1841 in Dunbarney, Perthshire.
He married a second time in 1871, when he gave his parents as Robert Hain & Elizabeth Dalrymple.
He died in 1882 in Glasgow. He was a carter. His death certificate repeats this parentage.

I'm wondering what the chances are that my John Hain and your James Dalrymple are brothers, with both being illegitimate sons of Elizabeth Dalrymple.

And if so, how on earth to prove it!

Howard Geddes

[StewL]

Hello Howard

This is an old topic, but if Mary still has the same email address she will get notification of your post.
Enjoy your time on TS, it is a friendly and helpful site.

[mmuir]

I still have this email (likely will always have it - it dates back to 1995)

I have never found any evidence for any siblings - just his mother marrying. As far as I know she didn't have any children with her husband

Mary

[Fordycer]

Hello Mary, I tried emailing you direct but they were bounced for some reason. But I've been looking into this a bit more.

First, Nether Magask is on the 1st edition OS map - and History of County of Fife (pg253) gives the place as Nether Magus, the property of Miss Hay, with Magus being owned by General Bethune of Blebo.

Having now seen how close Blebo and Magus are, I have a connection between your Dalrymple and a certain branch of Hains.

David Hain, tenant in Balmullo, Leuchards in 1791, appears to be son of Thomas Hain who was feuar in Myretoun of Blebo (in 1785) and tenant in Balmullo (in 1797). David Hain had a son Robert Hain born 1786 in Balmullo who could have had a child with your Elizabeth Dalrymple in 1813 - but he would be ten years younger than Elizabeth so unlikely although not impossible.

But I also have a note that this David Hain had an elder brother John Hain who was feuar at Morton of Blebo, as well as younger brothers Thomas and Robert, all baptised in Kemback, I think born at Newbiggin of Blebo.

This allows me to infer that, with your Elizabeth Dalrymple and my Robert Hain being roughly the same age, my Robert Hain was born abt 1777 near Blebo - and this makes him maybe a son of said John Hain at Blebo. John Hain in Morton of Blebo married in 1782 (no children of that marriage named Robert) but he was born in 1746 at Blebo so it's possible he had a son in 1777.

Some mighty big loose ends but your Nether Magus / Blebo reference is the first substantive clue I've seen in years in my search for my elusive Elizabeth Dalrymple.

Is there anything to add about the parents of Elizabeth Dalrymple (John or James?).

I see that Elizabeth's sister was born at Craigrothy which is just the other side of Ceres to Newbiggin/Blebo/Magus.

Howard Geddes