where might I find records.....

Research · Post by **Research** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 5:00 am

I am trying to find out what happened to John Manners, born 1842 Greenock Scotland to John Manners and Margaret Campbell. I know his father died around the time of Johns Birth and Margaret was possibly dead in 1855 (not confirmed). If so John would have been orphaned at age 13/14, so where would he have gone? He next shows up in Ulladulla, New South Wales, Australia in 1866.

Is there a shipping list showing him migrating to Australia. So far all my searches for ships has found nothing because most children were not listed, there are only numbers of children on ship.

Does anyone have any suggestions where else I could search?

Russell · Post by **Russell** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 11:36 am

Hi

Looking at the date and his age he would probably not been considered a child by that time. Many youngsters in urban places were already out working as drawboys in weaving mills or other poorly paid work.
In a mining area he would have been down the mine by 12 or 13.
In Greenock he could have been employed in a ropeworks, a sugarmill or in a miriad of dockside related jobs.
Have you tried to find him on the 1851 census still in Greenock ? Probably in lodgings.
If he was on the strreets he could have ended up in the industrial school there.
He could have joined a ships company and jumped ship in Australia. That was quite common and I doubt if any crew records exist still.

He will probasbly turn up unexpectedly when you are looking for someone completely different. That has been my experience with those difficult relatives

Russell

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 11:41 am

Hi Research
I expect this is how you know this in the first place, but there is a death of a Margaret, with surnames Campbell & Manners in 1855 on SP.

Any sign of your family in the 1851 census & any sign of anyone related to them at the same address ten years later in 1861 or of John himself?
I can see there is one John Manners (aged 8 ) in 1851 but none aged 17-21 in 1861, so looks like he may not have been here by then, unless there is a transcription error that he is hiding behind.

I don't know much about shipping lists to Australia, so don't think I can help in that area. If he stayed in UK for a bit my guess would be even at 13/14 he would probably have been working, he may have been lodging somewhere or he may have been with relations - do you know of any to check such as aunts or uncles?

Best wishes
Lesley

Research · Post by **Research** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 12:56 pm

Thanks for the information. I

have been able to locate John in 1851 but not 1861 as yet. Still searching.

If he was working at the time of the 1861 census are there census details for the workplaces? In Australia he put his occupation in 1866 as Blacksmith, so I wonder if he would have done some training in Greenock?
If so do you know where I could locate this information?

Also if he did join a ship, do you have any idea where I can find out the names of the ships that departed Greenock area between 1855 and 1866?
This might give me some information on which port in Australia he might have come to. I know, this is a long shot but I seem to have become obsessed with find this fella. The rest of my ancestors must think I am neglecting them. But maybe, once I find my John I might be able to move on to someone else.

Thanks
Research

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 1:31 pm

Hi Research

If he was working at the time of the 1861 census are there census details for the workplaces?

The census dealt with "households", so reflects where people lived, but occupations were given, so he may be down as "blacksmith" or "blacksmith's apprentice" or somesuch, but it would be unlikley to give you the place of his employment unless of course he was living as a boarder with his employer who had his own business or similar.

Also if he did join a ship, do you have any idea where I can find out the names of the ships that departed Greenock area between 1855 and 1866?

As far as I'm aware, but I'm not really up on this area, so may be wrong, it is more likely that you will find trace of him on his arrival in Australia, than his departure from UK.

Best wishes
Lesley

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 1:44 pm

Have you seen this, scroll down to post by ShirleyX? If not, might be worth a contact to see if it is the same man...
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.ph ... c=95487.15
Greenock, MANNERS, CAMPBELL, MONTGOMERY, LECKIE
But, it's just occurred to me , it might be you!

See also post by ShirleyX on this page:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.ph ... #msg401703

John Manners born 1841/2 Greenock Scotland, (possible parents John and Catherine or Margaret or combination, Manners.)

John married in 1866 Ulladulla NSW. On his death certificate 1909, states he had been in the colonies 53 years. Means he would have been about 13/14 when he arrived around 1856.

Best wishes
Lesley

Research · Post by **Research** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:33 am

ShirleyX is me.

I guess I'll just have to keep plugging away at the shipping records here but I don't expect they will reveal anything. Might change tack and try to find out what businesses were around the area of Ulladulla at that time that might have employed a young lad in that trade.

Thanks again
ShirleyX/research

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:55 am

Hi Research/Shirley
Whoops, sorry, blew your cover!
And there was me thinking I'd maybe found a long lost distant relative who you could work together with on this & swap info.

I was quite excited about the prospect too...
Bother

.... back to the drawing boad!

Best wishes
Lesley

Research · Post by **Research** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:03 pm

Lesley

No problem, you didn't blow my cover.

Just had to find another login name because they wouldn't accept the first one, seems someone beat me to it. And that's okay, I married into the X surname anyhow and now I am divorced of it, just haven't bothered to change it, too much red tape to alter it at this stage, especially since the relationship I am in now is headed for trouble. My man wants me to marry him when he retires from work in 2008. I think he is in for a shock. He doesn't know how obsessed I am with this family history stuff,

might not be around much for him. I think I'll suggest a trial run - well couldn't hurt.

Who are you researching, maybe we can find the link between our families and Adam and Eve or the Monkeys in the trees, whichever suits

Happy hunting.

Shirley/Research

grannysrock · Post by **grannysrock** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:34 pm

Hi Shirley / Research
You may have already tried these -
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/ ... e_3357.asp
and
http://mariners.records.nsw.gov.au/

On the latter I was there was a 14 year old British John Manners arriving at Sydney on the European in February 1857 - as part of the crew ( Occupation - "Boy" . Could this be him ?

Sally

TalkingScot.com

where might I find records.....

where might I find records.....

Lesley and Bruce

Thanks Lesley

Still the mysterious Ms X