Have I got the right lot??.....

ladybird · Post by **ladybird** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:28 am

Here's a goody for you excellent folks.

Thanks to OPR images I have to John Jeffrey, weaver, Carlton and Isabel Steven ....
1815 JAFFRAY ISOBEL CHILD 2 U Barony
1817 JAFFRAY CHILD 3 U Barony
1819 JEFFRAY JAMES CHILD 3 U Barony
1826 JEFFREY WILLIAM CHIILD 4 U Barony

(2xCHILD 3'S??)

BUT I also should have a George c1823 and David c 1825 between James and William...no sign of birth entries for them though!

I'm starting to wonder if I have the right John Jeffrey/Isabel Steven family?
I have on the 1841 census John and Isabel with children John George and David at the Normal Seminary, New City Rd.. But where is William he would only have been 14? (I know this is the right family)

Could John who was a weaver till at least the birth of William in 1826 then become a Janitor at the Free Normal School by 1841?

There are 2 marriages for John Jeffrey and Isabel Steven
1810 - This John was a soldier from Stirling
1815 - This John was the weaver from Carlton.

2nd child Isabel was born 2 months before the marriage and baptised 1 month after, so where and when was the 1st child - died???

I think I'm going to LOVE these OPR images, they give extra bits of info, but can also add to the confusion

I was quite happy in my ignorance before

Sylvia

Post by **AndrewP** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:51 am

Hi Sylvia,

Doing a search (using wildcards in the names) on ScotlandsPeople equivalent to the IGI's parent search produces the four children that you listed above.

1 01/10/1815, JAFFRAY ISOBEL, JOHN JAFFRAY/ISOBEL STEVEN, FR1335, CHILD 2, U
2 04/05/1817, JAFFRAY JOHN, JOHN JAFFRAY/ISOBELLA STEVEN, FR1373, CHILD 3, U
3 31/01/1819, JEFFRAY JAMES, JOHN JEFFRAY/ISOBELLA STEVEN, FR1410, CHILD 3, U
4 27/08/1826, JEFFREY WILLIAM, JOHN JEFFREY/ISOBELLA STEVEN, FR2133, CHILD 4, U
All born in Barony Parish, Glasgow, Lanarkshire.

I would read that as John died before James was born, but cannot prove that is what happened. The other children that you expected to find either show that this is the wrong family, or that they were not of the dates you expected them to be and they were all later than William of 1826 (assuming the data "child 4" is correct).

At age 14, it is possible that John was living away from the parental home, probably having left school and started working.

I agree with you that this family group is most likely the result of the 1815 marriage in Calton (Glasgow). And therefore your explanation of child #1 is as likely as any other in the absence of any other information.

All the best,

AndrewP

ladybird · Post by **ladybird** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:22 am

Thanks Andrew
If that is my John b1817 he married twice and died 1856.

Back to SP I think with a wider search for George and David. (later 1826-36...no George or David)
It does seem odd though that there should be such a large gap in years between James and William?
I did wonder if James and William had their names changed later to George and David

Sylvia

Russell · Post by **Russell** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:33 am

Hi Sylvia

Don't be too surprised at gaps in the child production line. We had one Edinburgh line with similar gaps until I found a list of either un-baptised or still-births where it simply said Male or Female child and the date. No name. Where we were in luck was both parents names were given so we knew that several of the births were to our relatives.
Records like this from other parishes have only given the name of the father so could not confirm anything.

So many factors back then could lead to miscarriages and abortions. Dietary, anaemias, toxins, infections............ the list was almost endless. What is amazing is how many children were actually born and lived to maturity.

Russell

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:24 pm

Hi Sylvia
Another possibility to consider is that perhaps a part of the OPR records for Barony are missing for one reason or another.... or that they moved out of Barony for a bit and there are no OPR records for wherever they moved to.

Best wishes
Lesley

ladybird · Post by **ladybird** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:47 pm

Thanks all for your help.
I think I'll go with the family as is for the moment.

I've checked the English 1841 and the Overseas births sections to see if a George or David came up with the Soldier John and Isabel combination. Though I've never found anymore about that couple through all the bmd's I've been through for Jeffreys....and that's quite a lot

My other question as to whether weaver John could jump to Janitor John by the 1841 census, any thoughts please?
*****

Also another interesting bit on the OPR's a John Carmichael is witness to 2 of the births.
Now...I have a possible birth for John Snr from the IGI

JOHN JAFFRIE
Birth: 25 DEC 1790
Christening: 09 JAN 1791 Barony, Lanark, Scotland
Father: JOHN JAFFRIE
Mother: ISOBEL CARMICHAEL

Worth pursuing do you think?
(BTW found this couple's 10th child born 1811

)

OK that's my ramblings for the day
Sylvia

Russell · Post by **Russell** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:40 pm

Hi Sylvia

In the 1840's-50's weaving was not a good industry to be in. Increasing mechanisation of all its various processes meant cut-throat competition between various manufacturers and lowering wages was an obvious saving for the employer.
Handloom weavers were being forced out of work in outlying villages and came into the towns for employment. Women & children could do many of the taske more cheaply so many men were out of work so John could easily have moved from weaver to janitor at that time. Many men ended up as general labourers.
It was a tough time for skilled craftsmen in other trades too.

Russell