Expression "held up" in OPR.....

Grendlsmother · Post by **Grendlsmother** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:03 am

Anyone come across this expression in an OPR baptism record - followed by the name of a person (not a parent, but a man who had the same surname as the mother). This is in a 1740 record and interestingly the child is not designated "lawful". Every other child on the page, seven or eight in all, is "lawful" but I do know that the parents were married as I have the OPR entry for that, well over a year before the baptism. Would "held up" mean that the person was verifying the legitamacy of the child in some way. At first I thought it might mean godparent, but no other entry on the page has that expression, or the name of any other person other than the parents or minister.

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:08 am

Hi Grendlsmother
..and a warm welcome to Talking Scot!

That sounds like an interesting variation you have found there. Could you possibly give us the "held up" words in their context, with some of the words, (preferably all!!

) either side of the phrase? That might help us get to grips with the possible meaning.

Best wishes
Lesley

Post by **emanday** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:14 am

I've never seen this, and can only suggest that maybe the parents were unable to be at the baptism themselves, (illness maybe?) and a close relative stood in for them.

Hopefully someone else will know.

Grendlsmother · Post by **Grendlsmother** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:34 am

The text reads:

John McDonald & Betty Neilson in Netherabbington had a son baptised 22 June 1740 Held up Michael Neilson named William. (Crawfordjohn OPRs)

Incidentally, this illustrates the danger of trusting IGI records too much. This baptism is recorded in a proper IGI batch - but the child's name is given as Michael Neilson McDonald! Fortunatley OPR images now available give the opportunity to check this out. I have search for William for years without success - now I know why.

Marriage entry reads - John McDonald & Betty Neilson in Netherabbingtoun gave up their names for proclamation 6 April 1739.
I've just realised that it does not actually say "and were married" (other records on the page do) so perhaps they never got round to it.

I think perhaps the theory of the parents not being able to attend is the most likely. Perhaps Bessy was ill following the birth. However, if so, she did recover as she had more children.

Nether Abington is still showing on the 1834 map.

Post by **AndrewP** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:40 am

Grendlsmother wrote:Nether Abington is still showing on the 1834 map.

Hi Grendlsmother,

Nether Abington shows on the current OS maps.

See Nether Abington on current OS map

All the best,

AndrewP

Grendlsmother · Post by **Grendlsmother** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:31 pm

Thanks Andrew

ninatoo · Post by **ninatoo** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:24 am

I think 'held up' might be a term meaning Godfather, or witness for the baptism. The one that held the baby...

Also I have read that a lot of baptisms occurred within just a few days of birth and often the mothers did not attned as they were not considered well enough.

Nina

Grendlsmother · Post by **Grendlsmother** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:55 am

Hi Ninatoo

I think you know me of old! I considered it could mean witness/godfather. However, this is the only child on the page (six or seven) who had one, which would be a bit strange.