Testament of George Gregory, Tinsmith, 1802, Edinburgh.....

[Rockford]

Hello Everyone,

If the technology has worked, I've just created an album in the gallery called 'Rockford' into which I've put a transcription of George Gregory's 'Testament Dative'.

http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... ?pos=-1190

Could someone shed light on/confirm what this means, as it's my first Testament and I'm not familiar with some of the language.

My reading of it is that George died in August 1802 with the sum of Five Pounds in his pocket, although he had goods and furniture worth just over £300. It would seem that these goods and 'household furniture' were sold by warrant of the Sheriff of Edinburgh and, after debts had been paid, the sum of £60 was left for his widow.

Is this right? And what would've happened to Elizabeth if all the household contents had been sold off? And who are Andrew Balfour and William Anderson, who are listed at the end?!

Thanks for any enlightenment........

Brian

[LesleyB]

Hi Brian
there is some info about Testment Datives here:
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/conte ... x.aspx?107
and here:
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/conte ... ?r=554&407

• Follows the Inventory
  In the First the said umquhile George Gregory had pertaining and belonging to him at his decease Five pounds Sterling being part of Three hundred and Fifty five pounds Eight Shillings and Eight pence Sterling which is the amount of the Inventory and valuation of the Defuncts goods and household furniture taken by warrant of the Sheriff of Edinburgh after the funeral Extending the said Five pounds Sterling in Scots money to Sixty pound.

The amount he left was "Three hundred and Fifty five pounds Eight Shillings and Eight pence" in pounds Sterling. However, the second amount is in Scots pounds - which had a different value (the pound sterling became Scots money in the 1707 act of Union, but pounds scots are still referred to in later documents) so, my thoughts would be that the £355:8:8 in sterling was equal to £60 Scots. (the rate of exchange was not good!! - e.g. in 1707 £1 sterling = 1/8d (one shilling and eightpence) Scots money.

Summa of the Inventory - the total of the inventory

• Masters Andrew Balfour V. Cautioner William Anderson Tin Smith in Edinburgh dated the Twenty first day of October one thousand eight hundred and two years.

The above pair confirm that the amount is as was stated by Mrs Gregory. (They may have been friends or acquaintances of George Gregory).

I'm sure others may be able to add more to this.
Best wishes
Lesley

[jennyblain]

Lesley and Brian. The rate of exchange between pounds Scots and Sterling was fixed at some point - I think around 1707 - as 1:12. It's the five pounds cash referred to which translates to 60 pounds Scots. So this is only dealing with the immediate sum, not the value of the goods at 350+ pounds sterling.

But I haven't seen the inventory, as it won't let me open it without saving to my hard drive..

Jenny

[AnneM]

Hi

Here's my tuppence worth on this:

1. George Gregory died without a will hence the confirmation of his widow as executrix dative. Dative means given as opposed to nominate, which means just that, nominated, which is the term used when the deceased left a will and nominated an executor.

2. umquhile in my limited experience of reading old documents means 'late' as in the late George Gregory.

3. I would have to see the original to make out what happens to the goods but from what is written there it looks as though they may have been taken as payment of debts.

Actually it is possible that it is the inventory that was taken and not the goods! That would mean that the goods were available for distribution in line with the law of intestate succession at that stage which I don't know offhand though the wife would certainly get some share as part of her legal rights.

The gentlemen who signed appear to be the cautioners, ie guarantors that the admin fees relating to the estate will be paid.

Anne

[Rockford]

Anne, Lesley & Jenny,

Thank you all for your comments - I hadn't realised that there was still a difference in 1802 between Scots pounds and Sterling. Do you know when it was equalised? I'm just wondering because George and Elizabeth's grandson went to London in the 1840s (and stayed in England for the rest of his life) and I imagine that an exchange rate of 1:12 would have made life difficult.

It's also possible that, as Anne pointed out, the goods were valued but not sold off, which is reassuring!

Andrew Balfour, Cautioner, might have been some kind of official, as his name is also listed at the end of the previous entry to George, where the second person was a Writer to the Signet. The other name on George's testament, William Anderson, was probably a friend or acquaintance due to him having the same occupation as George.

Thanks again for your help,

Brian

[jennyblain]

Anne, Lesley & Jenny,

Thank you all for your comments - I hadn't realised that there was still a difference in 1802 between Scots pounds and Sterling. Do you know when it was equalised? I'm just wondering because George and Elizabeth's grandson went to London in the 1840s (and stayed in England for the rest of his life) and I imagine that an exchange rate of 1:12 would have made life difficult.

Er - I think we're talking at cross purposes. The Pound Scots wasn't legal tender after 1707 or such. It was simply that things (including pounds sterling) continued to have their value given in the old pounds Scots. So five pounds sterling would have been seen as having the value of 60 pounds Scots.

I shouldn't have used the phrase 'exchange rate' as that implies an actual conversion of currency. These inventories are talking about the value not the currency.

I've got a couple of inventories which likewise give the values in both sterling and Scots.

Jenny

[ladybird]

Sorry to butt in here Brian, but I notice you have Gilchrist as one of your names.
Have you ever heard of a Spencer Gilchrist please. She married George Stevens in 1773, Lanark and was my 3xg/grandmother. I can't find a birth for her on SP.
regards Sylvia

[Rockford]

Hy Sylvia,

I haven't found a Spencer Gilchrist so far! However, the furthest back I have is William Gilchrist, who was born in 1770 in Wiston & Roberton, County of Lanark. His father was Archbald Gilkerson and William seems to have become a Gilchrist around 1802. Wiston and Roberton is about 12 miles south of Lanark and I know that there were Gilchrists in other parts of Lanarkshire e.g. Lesmahagow, Carluke etc., but I haven't found a connection yet.

If I find anything, I'll get in touch!

Best wishes

Brian

[ladybird]

Thanks Brian
I actually hadn't thought of doing a GILK** search for her,,,might be worth a look
Sylvia