Help finding G G G G Grandparents.....

scotslink · Post by **scotslink** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:29 pm

Good Morning Lesley,

I think it will have to be a dead end with Vere and Andrew as they are both proving to be elusive!!!!!!

The OPR: 547 Turnbull/Oswald: Upon the 12th Jan 1851 were (? cannot read) Andrew Turnbull Joiner son of the late Andw Turnbull Engineer and Vere Oswald daughter of Alexr Oswald, Farmservant and both of this Parish Mard 13th by Revd John Blackie now of Abbotshall.

549 Turnbull/Oswald 12th Jan 1851 as above:

The only other thing is on the 1851 census for Andrew(38) and Vere Turnbull(26), is Jane Miller (4) Step-daughter, maybe Vere was married before (although i have tried finding this to no avail), Jane later took the name (on other census) Jane Oswald Turnbull.

thankyou for your help...

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:50 pm

Hi Scotslink
OK, its longshot time!!

I found a death of an Alexander Oswald in Dysart, Fife, a ploughman. This Alexander died in 1877, aged 73. There are a few interesting coincidences with his family, which appear to have some similarity with what you know of yours - but this is only a possible link, not something proven...just something to bear in mind.

Alexander (above) married Helen Wilkie in 1842 in Dysart, which seems late and makes me wonder if he had a previous marriage....and he was born in Fife, interestingly in Abbotshall (next door to Auchterderran) Even more interesting are his parents - they were James Oswald (a farmer) and Jean/Jane Wier... these are familiar first names... (Vere's first daughter is named Jane and you stated there was a James listed as father in law in the 1851 (How old is that father in law in 1851? He is going to have to be some age to fit in with this family!) . OK, so no Mary Black - but as far as I can make out this name is only given on Vere's death, so not by herself, but by her son John who was the death informant and who may not have known.

Another bit that is of interest is that James Oswald and Jane Weir were married on 13 NOV 1802 at Saint Cuthberts, Edinburgh, Midlothian, and as you know Vere ended up back in Midlothian after her marriage. I have only found two children for Alexander & Jane so far,

ALEXANDER OSWALD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 16 AUG 1803 (the one whose marriage & death are mentioned above)
Christening: 26 AUG 1803 Abbotshall, Fife, Scotland
JANE OSWALD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 26 APR 1805
Christening: 17 MAY 1805 Abbotshall, Fife, Scotland

and if (its a big if!) they are Vere's parents, then she is likely to be about the last child they had!! Only just possible...!! However, this Alexander could also be Vere's father -he'd be about 23 at the time you think she was born.
But I may be grasping at straws here - no proof, just a bunch of hunches.

The only other thing is on the 1851 census for Andrew(38) and Vere Turnbull(26), is Jane Miller (4) Step-daughter, maybe Vere was married before (although i have tried finding this to no avail), Jane later took the name (on other census) Jane Oswald Turnbull.

I may be wrong, but that makes we wonder if Vere's daughter Jane was born before she married Andrew Turnbull - Jane may be illegitimate. Where does it state she was born in the 1851 census?

Best wishes
Lesley

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:15 pm

James Oswald birth place has been given as Abbotshall and in 1851 he was aged 71

Based on this over on Rootschat, that James is beginning to look more likely to me....

Andrew Turnbull's has been put down as Fife Monismail?

Monimail is a parish in Fife.

Best wishes
Lesley

scotslink · Post by **scotslink** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:48 am

Lesley, I cannot thank you enough for all this work you are doing..

Looking at the 1851: Andrew Turnbull, Head, 38, Joiner Journeyman, Fife Monimail
Vere Turnbull, Wife, 26, Auchterderran
Marjory Turnbull, Daughter, 15, Perthshire
James/Issac (cannot read) Turnbull, son, 9 Forfar, Dundee (These must be andrews from previous marriage)
Jane Millar, Step Daughter, 4 Fife Kirkcaldy
James Oswald, Father in Law, Widow, 71, Labourer Agricultural, Abbotshall.

My GGG Grandfather Andrew (Son of Vere) was also born in Kirkcaldy in 1852/3

1861 has Jane as, Jane O Turnbull, 14, Cowans Rag Work, Kirkcaldy.

I did wonder whether James Oswald was grandfather, maybe they couldn't fit it all in????

But once again Thank you for all you have done,

scotslink · Post by **scotslink** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:55 pm

Lesley,

I checked the James Oswald / Jane Weir connection and the name Weir comes from the Norman word VERE! Maybe this is where Vere Oswald got her name from..... only guessing

Regards

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:15 pm

Hi Scotslink

I checked the James Oswald / Jane Weir connection and the name Weir comes from the Norman word VERE! Maybe this is where Vere Oswald got her name from..... only guessing

Stranger things have happened,

but as you say. its a guess for the moment. I certainly think it would be wise to bear that couple in mind - there do appear to be a number of things which make them look likely, but you'd really need a bit more proof before you claimed them as your own!
Best wishes
Lelsey