Why would children be detained from baptism?

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:56 pm

JulieD wrote:Hello Nina

You may be right...I am truly not sure...I have been going blind trying to figure this one out! I suspected the first few letters were 'stri'...but maybe 'strong objections' ? I had wondered about 'suffering' also...because these Frames, I believe, were somewhere near Cadder/Calder where the Covenanter William Frame who was sent to Barbados came from (from memory ?1679). A story passed down one of the West Virginia Frame lines is that James Frame fled persecution and he actually went/was sent to Ireland before ending up in the U.S.

Hmmmm............. "strong" I can just about "see", and given the lack of standardisation back then in spelling, "objection" might well end in an "e", - but it's still those superscript abbreviation annotations that are fooling me

.

David

Post by **emanday** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:23 pm

The "strong objections" possibility could be backed up by the later words "were removed"

Baptisme be reason of the parents strong objections which by the blessing of God upon the patient Christian endeavours of your minister Mr James Browne were removed.

Not uncommon to hear the phrase "His objections were removed".

Just a thought.

Post by **emanday** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:27 pm

Just had another look. Could this be another possibility?

Baptisme be reason of the parents strong resistance which by the blessing of God upon the patient Christian endeavours of your minister Mr James Browne was removed.

JulieD · Post by **JulieD** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:17 pm

Thanks so much for the help Mary and David. My despair is now turning to hope! Objection and Resistance are both certainly plausible. This was my first post to Talking Scot and I do appreciate your assistance with what seemed an impossible task! It's now past my bedtime so will give my eyes a rest ready for tomorrow's challenges! I would put one of those cute emoticons here but have not worked that out yet!

Goodnight all!

Post by **AnneM** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:29 pm

Hi

I must admit I can't see either objection or resistance there but it looks to me as if the word ends in an e as David said and perhaps includes the syllable 'less'. I did look for faithlessnesse but failed to find it. At present I can't think of a word that might fit. It seems to be one word because there are sizeable spaces between the other words on the page.

Anne

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:35 pm

Hi Julie
I'm pretty sure Glasgow Parish and Port Glasgow are two different parishes. I think (and I'm sure someone who knows will tell us!!) that "Glasgow Parish" is the Parish of Glasgow Cathedral, in central Glasgow, whereas Port Glasgow is on the coast, near Greenock.
http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=55.91419 ... 2243&hl=en
...move to the east and the city of Glasgow should be visible.

Here is a parish map showing Port Glasgow in Renfrewshire:
http://www.scotlandsfamily.com/parish-map-stirling.htm
And here is a parish map of Lanarkshire, showing Glasgow Parish:
http://www.scotlandsfamily.com/parish-map-lanark.htm

Best wishes
Lesley

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:23 pm

Hi all
As to that word....
breaking it down, I think the ending is what appears to be:
_____lesitie
In a modern sense it seems to be "something - licity" as in the word complicity (I'm sure there are other examples - its the only I could think of off the top of my head..)

Not a great help so far......I'm still working on it and waiting for inspiration.
It might be along wait....

Best wishes
Lesley

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:49 pm

Hi Julie
RE. Glasgow Parish & Kirk Session records, I reckon this might be the one you want : (but all these inner highs and outer highs are a bit confusing!)

RefNo CH2/550
Repository Glasgow City Archives
Title Glasgow, St. Mungo's (Cathedral, Inner High, North) Kirk Session
Date 1583-1939
AccessStatus Not held
AccessConditions This record group is not in the National Archives of Scotland. It is held by Glasgow City Archives.

See http://www.glasgowcathedral.org.uk/

POST REFORMATION
After the Reformation a wall was put across the nave to allow the western portion of the nave to be used for worship by a congregation which became know as the Outer High. This congregation worshiped in the nave from 1647 until 1835.
The Lower Church was used by another congregation, the Barony, from 1596-1801, until a new church was built just across from the Cathedral.

The congregation which used the Quire was for a time called the Inner High. The pulpit was placed between pillars of the south aisle and the King's Seat was on the north aisle. In 1805 a major reconstruction saw the pulpit removed to the east end.

Best wishes
Lesley

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:40 pm

Hi Julie & all
OK, leap of faith time and I may be completely wrong.... I think that word may be:
sceugalesitie

(Eh? they all chorused)

- the letter U often has a wee line above it to ensure the reader knows it is a U and not a N.
http://www.scottishhandwriting.com/cont ... age=s4_6_4
and the letter C is not always formed in the way we are used to seeing these days.
http://www.scottishhandwriting.com/cont ... ?page=s4_3

In the Concise Scots Dictionary: scug, scoug, scog etc. has several meanings, one of them being: a pretence, pretext, hypocritical excuse.
Another meaning is scougry=concealment, secrecy.... which I'm not sure makes sense here.

Whether "Scougalicity" was ever a form of that word, I don't know and I have no idea if it would be used in that context to imply some belief at odds with the church... just trying to make some sense out of what I'm seeing there, but I may be off on the wrong tangent altogether.

Best wishes
Lesley

JulieD · Post by **JulieD** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:48 am

Hello Anne
Thanks for your efforts. I woke up this morning and had

'stringent resistance'

in my head, and I can 'almost' see it on the document. But as you say, there is no space if there are two words. Thanks again!